Could this impact on the general election?
March 12th, 2010Could it open up the UNITE-Labour link?
Any big development that could affect large numbers of people in such a politically potent period as this has to be looked at in terms of how it could impact on voting in the election.
At the very minimum the action could dominate the news media in the weeks before the vote. On top of that it could give the Tories the peg to open up what I think is a highly dangerous issue for Labour - the close links and heavy reliance on the union UNITE.
But don’t count on it - for one thing that Cameron’s party seems to be lacking is a ruthless streak. Unlike Labour there’s an apparent reluctance to put the boot in even when there’s a golden opportunity.
It will be interesting to see how that old bruiser, Ken Clarke does provided he’s let off the leash. But he’s got to be careful - voters might not like strikes but his party doesn’t want to be tagged as “union-bashers”.
Mike Smithson
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They don’t seem too shy…
Labour being a bit shy over condemning Unite strike. Are they too busy counting the £11m Unite gave to them over the last three years?
Hattersley vs Clarke?
Difficult call for both parties, Walsh is not someone the Tories want to be close to.
Betting story on the New BNP constitution being ruled illegal breaking.
henrymacrory
Brown says the BA strike is unacceptable…has he told that to his henchman from Unite, Charlie Whelan?
Ken Clarke does provided he’s let off the leash. But he’s got to be careful - voters might not like strikes but his party doesn’t want to be tagged as “union-bashers”.
Why not? worked for Maggy. A good bit of union bashing is good for the soul, esepcially when they’re being as unreasonable as UNITE are.
The key for the Tories is to make Whelan the target, not the strikers.
He is absolutely odious; regardless of whether they are on the left or the right, people hate his guts.
Who are Cameron’s potential attack “dogs”?
He’ll need some in the coming weeks. Who will play the role?
This is a potent issue, but it’s not an easy one for the Tories to use directly, without being seen to take sides.
It will be interesting to see how far the media pick up the stranglehold Unite have on Labour. This could be a critical factor if Labour end up in government again; can anyone seriously believe a Unite-funded Labour Party would be capable of axing wasteful public spending?
How much money has UNITE given to the Labour party in the last year?
Come May, will this be what Gordo is found doing with all his newly found free time?
http://dizzythinks.net/2010/03/doom-gordon-brown-style-play-online.html
3 tim
BNP consitution - just about the best news Griffin could have. The establishment pick on the anti-establishment party. Jean-Marie Le Pen couldn’t have done better.
Why are Union firebrands almost invariably Scousers?
paulwaugh
MI5 chief Eliza Manningham-Buller to investigate Baroness Uddin re exes, the Clerk of Parliaments announces.
paulwaugh
With Lord Paul already on her plate, Manningham-Buller will have her work cut out.
7 Phillippe Magnan
Philip Hammond and Liam Fox are the best of a bad bunch out of the senior guys.
Hague could have been, but is too tainted with Ashcroft. Ken Clarke is good but a bit old. Grayling was meant to fill the role but is utterly useless.
Dan Hannan would be amazing at an attack role but is too loony to be taken seriously.
The Tories really are a little too soft and genteel. They just don’t seem to WANT power enough.
re 14. That sums it well Wibbler.
not banging the drum for BNP but is’nt there a Black Police section it has to discriminate surely and is supported by the establishment..
Copied from ConHome:
“Today, Trevor Kavanagh in The Sun shares some interesting statistics:
59 Labour candidates are members of Unite, whilst there are eight further PPCs who are current or former Unite staff. Unite has given Labour £11 million in the last three years;”
What more ammunition do the Tories need? Unite ARE the Labour Party. It is simply not viable without them and they will have a significant % of the PLP after this election. BA management are difficult to enthuse about but they are surely right on this.
I vote they set Warsi and old Ken on BA / Unite and really hammer the Whelan ties to No. 10
The Unite purchase of their own poodle party is a story which needs oxygen before the election and this is a good chance to do so.
This is going to be a very interesting indeed. And these latest developments mean that Charlie Whelan is finally being brought back out of the shadows, thus linking Downing Street and Unite at a difficult moment. Could have real ramifications for both the government and Unite if that then becomes the story?
I still wonder if there is now some real scope to question the need for the Trade Unions Modernisation fund too, especially in light of the way that Madelson,Prescott&Co behaved over Lord Ashcroft. Its amazing to think that so much MSM time and dead wood has been devoted to that one Conservative Donor, and yet this piece of Taxpayers largess is totally ignored.
The strike in undeniably dangerous for Labour, not least because of the timing. Will be interesting to see how it is handled by both parties.
One reason the Tories might not be pushing too hard is because of WHERE the strike is taking place.
I am guessing most cabin crew who will be striking live near Heathrow - and there quite a few West London marginals.
Off topic horribly… will avoid pressing send until there are more replies (I would have otherwise been first
On the subject of the bank bonus tax, on 11th Dec last year I wrote this here:
My guess is that this will raise substantially more than the £550m they predicted, say £1-1.5bn. Depending on when it becomes apparent that this is the case (I guess Feb-March) this could be good news for Labour (or bad news if the media narrative will be that the tax wasn’t the disincentive they claimed it would be).
It was obvious to individual banks almost immediately that the amounts they were talking about were wrong (I’d be surprised if my bank’s first estimate wasn’t close to the £550m total forecast).
I think it must have been obvious to the treasury and the government too. They were aware of a £1bn+ windfall coming from evil bankers to be spent in the next budget. Even know we all know it’s a tiny amount of money in the context of the deficit, I am fully expecting it being ringfenced for some vote buying in the next budget.
ChristinaD at 2.43. I agree with this too. The £11M given to Labour is probably equivalent to the modernisation fund payments and a direct equivalence should be made. It is a merry go round fuelled by taxpayers money. Taxpayers now being inconvenienced.
More publicity for the BNP…the “establishment” going after like this is IMO just completely counter-productive. I imagine todays decision have just given them some more votes.
Interested elements of the MSM need to plug the Unite-Labour symbiosis and the Tories just need to sit back and let the electorate come to their own conclusions.
Come on Trevor.
18 scrapheap
Oh, yes, I forgot Warsi in the list of attack dogs.
She is definitely someone capable of sticking the boot in.
Budget on the 24th, 4 day BA strike from the 27th. What odds for a 15 point Conservative lead in the polls Easter weekend… and would Brown REALLY still be calling an election gor a month or so later?
24 Oracle
yes, but the votes will come off Labour - as always they haven’t thought it through.
“What odds for a 15 point Conservative lead in the polls Easter weekend”
What odds would you like?
chris A - on previous thread. Not asking for sympathy re my hols. I booked for that day precisely because they had said no strikes over Easter. Will say one good thing for BA - they were cheaper than Easyjet once all the extras added in, booked a car for us as well and the schedules were better.
The unions are playing silly buggers again; labour are in hock to them again and it costs a fortune to go abroad. Just like the 70’s in fact.
If Labour get back in there’ll be more of this sort of nonsense.
Oh and BenM: you say that no-one should worry about a 60 pc tax rate because you get 40p you wouldn’t have had otherwise. Typical Lefty nonsense. It’s not the government’s money: it’s mine, I earned it and the Government is now taking even more of it than before because it’s fouled up, again.
Will Willie take on new staff and/or charter planes to try and break the strike?
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article7048743.ece
If he does not he might as well put BA into voluntary administration now and let somebody else see what they can salvage.
Maybe Cameron plans to be ruthless in the debates. For example Gordon Brown is asked why has their being negative growth in the first quarter this year. Gordon Brown’s answer ” It has been due to unforeseen circumstances of exceptionally heavy snowfall and strikes that I personally asked not to take place as it may cause a problem to the economy”. Cameron but in ” You were in no position to stop the strike as the Union Unite were paying for your election campaign”.
Amazing that the BBC web-page on the strike manages not even to mention Unite’s links with Labour. And yet the tiniest link with the Tories in any story is invariably mentioned.
Alanbrooke - you are wrong on the BNP issue.
The legal stuff has fostered diviisions inside it and strengthens the anti Griffin faction.
It also ties them in knots financially.
They bring it on themselves with great skill, the new constitution having some clause in it which specifies that non White applicants must spend two hours in their own home with a BNP activist.
wibbler. Don’t forget Boris either. He can be ruthlessly effective making strong points in a humourous way that doesn’t sound “nasty”. He has a good platform as Mayor on a whole range of issues and should use it.
Thatcher did OK for support when taking on the unions - why should the tories fight shy of attacking these people who seem to have recently woken from a 30 year coma and haven’t realised the world is a tad different now?
Is there any polling data on whether the strikers have support? I would assume it is very low, but then I would have assumed Labour’s poll ratings would be very low as well so what do I know? People are very odd
29. OK.. I will rephrase it. What are the chances of the Conservatives having a 15 point lead Easter weekend?
The link between Labour and Unite is the money - about which the public is well aware.
As you point out ChristinaD, Whelan is the link between the Union and No.10 - he is a former spin doctor, a friend of Brown - but if you keep Whelan out of the broadcast news then there is no connection.
Whelan’s part in this will simply be glossed over.
8.Richard, interesting post about how the Tories handle this story without taking sides. And then questioning if the media will pick up on the very strong links that Unite have with this current Labour government. I think the job of the Conservatives is to make sure that the MSM do have to report this link, and they need to get out there and do so at every opportunity just as their Labour opponents have so successfully done when trying to attack them over recent weeks. The Conservatives cannot rely on anyone else to do the job for them.
I believe the argument that Labour (and therefore the Government) is in the hands of the Unions has never been stronger. Labour is in financial straights as a party and is virtually kept afloat solely on Union hand outs; when a Government’s hands are tied to such an extent, what actions it should take for the ‘good for the Country’ are seriously compromised.
If this aspect is highlighted in the media, coupled with the outrageous laundering of funds through means of the ‘Union Modernisation Fund’ then this could be seriously embarrassing for Gordon Brown.
Could it impact on the General Election? Well the timing of it could create the perfect storm – it certainly won’t help Labour’s chances imo.
This isn’t the same Charile Whelan who was Brown’s spin doctor is it? I thought he was NuLab through and through, and nothing to do with loony left wing unions?!?
22 - I am sure nice Mr Darling will find some cash at the back of the sofa to fund a pre-election bribe. Maybe they’ll go for the one-off Council Tax rebate for pensioners again?
A cursory reminder - if one were needed - that incumbent governments hold most of the cards at election time.
37
It depends on the polling organisation.
there are plenty of people who have had pay freezes, others with icreases of <2%, and a significant number wo have lost jobs or have been made redundant they will look at Unite’s antics at BA with incredulity. Given that BA’s staff have sigificantly higher pay levels than Virgin, Easyjet, Ryanair it is even harder to see that Unite can win any public support.
Cammeron ought to remind voters that Unite has backed a signiifant number of Labour MPs, donated a large sum of money to Brown’s party, but are acting like an unmodernised union.
If he cannot make the running on this story, he will be like millions of others looking for a newjob.
34 tim
well the election will prove that one way or the other. However I see no need to give them a short term publicity boost before a general election - this is exactly what they need. Furthermore let’s see what the ruling says since these things have a tendancy to have unintended consequences.
Could the left, and the establishment at large, have got their strategy in respect of the BNP any more wrong? It looks like victimisation.
41 - He who pays the piper…got to fund that champagne socialist lifestyle some how. Limited job market for a discredited spin doctor, although I remember the BBC were happy to give him a job!
i think the tories have to get nasty in respect of BA strikers. Most people realise they are not that badly paid and will not have much sympathy. There comes a time when you can be too timid trying not to upset anyone and over thinking all the consequences of actions. Sometimes you just have to say IT!! Maggie did well doing it . Once said do not back down either or go on the defensive . UNITE not only have backed labour but have recieved government funding so surely this must be highlighted
Whelan is Brown’s fixer from way back.
So, UNITE threatens strike before election.
Will it happen? Don’t be silly, it’s a set-up.
Gordon will arrive to calm the troubled waters, showing what a wonderful statesman he is and how everything is safe in his hands.
He’ll just have to remember not to dither for too long, that’s all.
re the BNP all the other parties shoudl have done is say ‘do you really want to vote for a party that excludes people on the bais of their skin?’ and left it to natural British fairplay.
Now by seemingly ‘bullying’ them through law action and also being hypocritical with the Black Police association and Black workers groups in councils etc they put the BNP on the side of that British ‘fairplay’ in many minds
47
Salmon fishing don’t come cheap, but plenty of friends at the BBC for such a happy chappie…
38.”Whelan’s part in this will simply be glossed over.”
bono publico, exactly! Just as Whelan and Maguire were airbrushed out of a previous scandal. NoW - Emails nail Labour’s lies
In the red corner: Labour’s answer to Ashcroft
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rachel_sylvester/article7054580.ece
“Ministers detect Mr Whelan’s influence over policy, such as the decision to shelve the part-privatisation of the Royal Mail, which his union opposed. Insiders believe he has returned the favour to Mr Brown by keeping Unite at the negotiating table with British Airways in an attempt to avert strike action in the run-up to the election.”
Whoops.
50 - Tackling some of the reasons why the WWC listened to the BNP in the first place would also be a decent start in combating them.
ObamaCare
Could this “signals that the White House — already “all-in” on health-care — believes a bill could reach Obama’s desk this month”?
The president’s international trip had grown into a frustration among many House Democrats, who complained privately to the White House that they were being forced to take a quick vote on health care so Mr. Obama and his family could leave on a trip to Indonesia next week.
The president agreed to delay his departure from March 18 to March 21, an administration official said, in an effort to show flexibility in the final push on health care legislation. The three-day delay effectively sets a new timetable for the House vote on the measure.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/obama-to-delay-asia-trip/?emc=na
via NRO
Re Charlie Whelan….You have to wonder about anybody who is willing to fund (albeit with other peoples money) the likes of Derek Draper don’t you….
BBC interviewing Wayne and Waynetta about the strike.
Probably not. After all we know that one-third of the electorate is so irredeemably stupid that they are considering voting Labour depsite all the evidence presented as to why this would be a loony idea, thus far.
41 Whelan has so much clout now, he’s effectively Brown’s boss. That’s why Macavity’s so quiet on the subject of Unite’s strike action.
49 - I agree exactly, b. Brown is dissembling, disingenuous, lying, dithering and incompetent as well as being a bullying, troughing slimeball. However, he is very, very good at political manoeuvering, as he is totally and myopically fixed on maximising his own re-election chances, to the exclusion of everything else.
The point that’s overlooked about the BNP case is that in principle, almost any political party can now face litigation if its policies have the effect of deterring any particular minority group from joining it.
Which rather takes away the point of having competing political parties.
55- I don’t know if this signals that the White House believes victory is imminent, but I do think it shows that the White House sees this as the “now or never” moment, and so are pushing Pelosi to the wall to make this happen NOW. It’s like saying, “okay guys, you said you need a little more time, so I’ve postponed my big trip to give you a few more days… now give me the bill!!!”
But I don’t know how the House Dems add up the votes. Yesterday, they lost their chance to pass reconciliation into law simultaneously with the Senate bill, plus Chairman Waxman told the Stupak Democrats to screw off. Today, it sounds like some members of the House Hispanic caucus (who unanimously supported the original House bill) are now ready to switch their votes to “nay” because of the fact that the Senate bill doesn’t let illegals buy in:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Gutierrez_jumping_ship.html?showall
Where are the votes to pass the bill?
BA will sort them out, they have put their plans for a strike in action, remember this is only with Cabin Crew, while the ground staff, and office staff have come to agreements.
Having worked at BA, and still have family working there they say most of the workers there are against this strike.
BA have said any one that goes on strike will lose their free flights, and this is one perk they all love, so expect some kind of turn around of a number of strikers going on strike.
49 — If so, then the Labour establishment is very clever at politics. Chapeau to the basterds!
Tony McNulty the first of a number of MPs to be targetted by Power2010:
http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/localnews/5057602.MP_accused_of__crimes_against_democracy_/
I hope they have good lawyers!
The Tories should be all over this story like a cheap suit. This is a far bigger scandal than the Ashcroft nonsense - direct influence over a government by an organisation that FUNDS them. This is an open goal that the Tories must hammer at furiously.
If they don’t, Brown, once again, seems to wriggle off a hook of his own making.
61 SF
that’s why I’m waiting to see the judgement in full; the thing about these prats who start such cases is they forget the law will also apply to them. The FOI act is a classic - Blair passes the law and is amazed when people start using it against him.
How do you know that the public don’t like union bashing? It is a spectator sport that many enjoyed in the days of the over mighty unions.
The Tories should slam Labour as the parliamentary wing of the Unite union, which is true. They should highlight the immorality of Whelan, Labour’s leading benefactor, having a key role in Labour’s campaign. The electorate must also be invited to question Brown’s mettle (is able to stand up to Whelan?) and his judgement (should he be associating with proven thugs and Luddites?). That should do the trick for starters.
his party doesn’t want to be tagged as “union-bashers”.
Why not? Since the right to strike is enshrined by law, the right to break a strike by hiring staff should also be enshrined by law. Why not get “” ’00s of “East European” (sic) cabin crew to cover for the strikers? I was amazed the PO was not allowed ot hire staff to cover for strikers, only for the “backlog”.
Philip Hammond was on the Beeb talking about the Unite link saying Gordo was not strong enough because of the money they give to Liebour.
Edward McMillan-Scott has become a Lib Dem
62 — “Where are the votes to pass the bill?”
I honestly dunno, sir. I’m quite confused, actually. I’ve sold ALL my shares over $5 when NYC was sleeping. The contract’s trading between 45 and 50% now.
Regarding señor Gutiterrez, I’ll echo the formidable Jay Cost in saying : we should be very careful to count as probable “nay” those who loudly protest from the Left.
72: ‘Edward McMillan-Scott has become a Lib Dem’
Good. The bloke’s a sneaky little weasel.
9. How much money has UNITE given to the Labour party in the last year?
According to Tory Politico…
In 2009 Labour received £3,642,919.06 from Unite, or 22.5 per cent of the funding the party received last year.
…
Trade union activists are stalking over 150,000 potential Labour voters in a secret war to fend of the Tories in the crucial Parliamentary seats that will decide the next election… a highly confidential operation being run by Britain’s biggest trade union, Unite, is far bigger than the Tories’ own £3m marginal seats campaign.
…
Unite’s ‘Unite4Labour’ website has been used to launch aggressive attacks on the Conservatives, which the Labour Party would not be able to mount. For example, Charlie Whelan attacks Conservatives’ planned spending cuts without revealing that Labour are also planning spending cuts:
…
Charlie Whelan, Unite’s political director, is not just running Brown’s outsourced election operations, he is once again back at the heart of government:
…
In January, Whelan used his Twitter account to claim police officers at No 10 recognised him and let him inside . Whelan has also used his Twitter account to post two recent pictures showing he is now once again in the corridors of power.
http://tory-politico.com/2010/03/unites-stranglehold-on-labour/
Presumably Whelan can deliver an end to the strike any time he chooses. The real question is what is the arm twisting going on out of sight of the public eye?
I can’t see the BA strike or the UNITE union link having much of an effect.
Firstly this election from Labour’s point of view is not about reaching out to Tory voters as in 1997, it is about shoring up it’s own vote. Labour supporters are generally more pro-union than any other group.
The second point may explain any reluctance by cameron to make too much of an issue with the Unite link. The Union funds are donated by a large number of individual union members, each of whom has had to opt into a political donation to the Labour Party. All Union members had to do this is 1992(ish) and presumably each new member who joined since will have signed the form.
Comparing a large number of small donations by workers on usually low wages, all of whom pay tax and national insurance, with donations from wealthy Non-Doms who appear to flout agreements made with party leaders, and who in return are given power and influence, is probably somewhere Cameron does not want to go.
Agree with commenters above.
The attack needs to be focussed on Whelan and his dual role as Unite’s media man and Brown’s attack dog. Then the millions Unite funnel to Labour looks dirty.
Nobody likes Whelan and there are plenty of scores to settle with him, so the tories should go for him.
72 No surprise.
Well he would go some where.
Tories expel MEP Edward McMillan-Scott in row over Cameron reforms
David Cameron’s attempts to create a political force in the EU received a setback yesterday when a row among his MEPs ended in the expulsion of the Tories’ longest-serving member at the opening of the new European Parliament.
Edward McMillan-Scott, 59, had the whip removed for standing against Michal Kaminski, an MEP from the party’s new Polish allies, in a vote for vice-presidents of the Parliament.
He stood against Mr Kaminski in defiance of orders from Timothy Kirkhope, the Conservative group leader, to give the Pole a free run. Mr McMillan-Scott was elected an independent vice-president of the Parliament. Mr Kaminski failed to win a post and the Tories’ new group was left as the only one without a vice-president.
The disciplining of Mr McMillan-Scott, who has expressed “real concern” about teaming up with “extreme rightwingers”, highlighted tensions among Tory MEPs over Mr Cameron’s decision to shun the parties of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy.
59 - “Whelan has so much clout now, he’s effectively Brown’s boss.”
We should take your word on this because you are so well grounded in the inner workings of the Labour movement? Try to be a little bit sensible.
For once I agree with Alanbrooke (any relation to the field marshall?) that the establishment is giving aid & comfort to BNP by siccing the dogs of law on them in the current fashion. Same as the powers-that-be in the Europarliament evidently want to give UKIP a leg up.
Antiestablishmentarians of all stripes (and this clearly includes many trueblue Tory PBers!) thrive on persecution. Indeed, that’s why they so often claim to be put upon even when there is little to no objective evidence justifying (outside their own skulls) their persecution mania.
BUT when the powers-that-be start using slegehammers to crack these pea-nuts, then it begins to look like they have a point, and a cause. Which earns them some sympathy (if not emphathy) all around . . . broadens their potential recruittment base.
78 - Whelan isnt going on strike though. BA cabin crew are going on strike. You can attack them but they have votes and friends and relatives.
77 RR
since when have union members rights counted for anything ? The political side is always dominated by a clique who have the time and inclination to sit everyone else out. Claiming funding is from the little guy on the shopfloor and it reflects his views is naive.
74. Big News. A former leader of the Tories in Europe.
40.Simon, very good point. Again, much hot air and hysteria was expelled to try and link Ashcroft’s donations to policy making in the Conservative party while totally ignoring the Labour non doms or the huge Union links to the current government, particularly Unite.
82 - The BNP and the anti-fascists need each other more than anyone else.
Guardian piece on Edward McMillan-Scott joining the LDs:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/12/edward-mcmillan-scott-defects-to-lib-dems
Heard Willie Walsh say that all those participating in strike action will lose for life their cheap travel entitlement.
Good.
This is probably the biggest reason for the strike not taking place.
The BA troughers wont want rid of their perks.
81 Well, simply inventing stuff is fine for many other posters here, and Brown himself is no stranger to the odd fabrication. Why not join in?
82 You can destroy almost any organisation by absolutely ruthless persecution. But half-hearted, petty, persecution, usually makes an organisation thrive.
This dispute might spark the Conservative media people into life.
Perhaps someone could check that there is a pulse first? Hammond has had a go but it needs half a dozen out there filling the media channels….. Sounds like hard work?
This is a key indication as to whether the Conservative Leadership really wants to win.
Dear CCHQ do send a brief on this to the activists….. It would help.
I’ve noticed sine yesterday that someone — or many people — are buying a lot of ObamaCare shares since yesterday around 5$ each. Now also. Very small transactions each time. But lots of them.
85
Who I have never heard of…
Anyway if some tory MEP defects to the Lib Dems it can only be good for the tories in terms of picking up UKIP waverers, as it demonstrates that their European approach must have moved to the eurosceptic side since Mr McMillan-Scott decided to run on the tory slate.
So the Lib Dems now have more MEPs in Yorkshire & N/NE Lincs than any other party despite finishing a not very good fourth in the poll. Quality stuff, this proportional representation.
85: ‘Big News.’
Codswallop! He knew the Tories were about to fling him out anyway:
http://www.theparliament.com/no_cache/latestnews/news-article/newsarticle/tory-rebel-faces-final-appeal-bid/
In fact, given that Whelan can orchestrate the strike, surely the best attack is that that is precisely what he is doing, and he is doing it for other reasons entirely than the interests of BA workers who are merely filling a role as useful idiots. What is the hidden agenda - that should be the question.
I see the Tories on here who thought the Ashcroft stuff was a non story have all finally realised that Hague is now so tainted by the story non story that he is not fit for purpose as a front line TV performer when a story such as UNITE/BA comes up.
The MacMillan Scott story gives the Tories extremist alliance in Europe another outing, and is yet another decision which the hapless Hague bears responsibility for.
62 - the Stupak group is about a dozen, isn’t it?
I suspect that Mr Gutierrez is merely using the tactic which worked so well for Landreux and Nelson.
97 - “given that Whelan can orchestrate the strike”
You understand nothing about the issue.
Much as Tories would like to return to the glory days when the Iron Lady was giving the Union Barons a good thrashing, the likelihood that thhis narrative will resurface to give Team Blue a big boost appears unlikely.
Why? Because Thatcher’s victory was so crushing, and also because Blair made such a point of keeping the syndicalist menace at arms’s length.
Similar to the economy, only in reverse. Since the ERM meltdown, as far as masses of electors are concerned, the Tories are either a) the gang that couldn’t shoot straight; or b) the bunch that took the money and run, leaving everybody else holding the bag.
Speaking of economic determinism (or rather indeterminism) as a political motivator, could it be that one difference between UK and US, is that Amerians simply have a shorter memory for this kind of thing? At least post-Watergate?
Edward McMillan-Scott joined the LDs years ago in spirit.
So I guess he will now drop his legal action trying to get the Conservatives to restore his membership? He knew that the party was leaving the EPP and he agreed to go along with that to become a candidate last June. Then when it happened he reneged on his promise. Says a lot about the man.
“Unlike Labour there’s an apparent reluctance to put the boot in even when there’s a golden opportunity. ”
Pardon? Soldiers letter? Bullygate? Baby P? The Tory problem seems to be the opposite - they are TOO keen put the boot in and go on the attack when it’s not appropriate.
98 Get he nakes right Tim…Its Wee Willie and Hapless Harperson .Dearie me..but I am so glad you have your Wee Willie again..
73- You’re right about Gutierrez, and I suspect that he’s turning negative on Obamacare to try to secure some hefty pledge for something or other in return for his vote. But what can Pelosi give him in these circumstances? It’s just possible that Gutierrez thinks the bill WON’T pass and he’s trying to take advantage of the situation to grandstand on another matter that plays well back in his heavily Hispanic district.
94. “as it demonstrates that their European approach must have moved to the eurosceptic side”
I think they’ve already pretty firmly established that. On the ‘not having heard of him’ point, I’m not really sure that can be the criteria - how many MEPs have any of us heard of?
Am I being naive in thinking that Tory high command has a number of “eye-catching initiatives” ready to roll out in the election campaign? These could surely include
* Going big on how the economy has been made worse by Brown
* Exposing the Unite issue in all its gory details
* The scandal of underfunded and undertrained troops
There are loads more on how craply the NHS is run, the IT projects debacle almost everywhere in the public sector, the rape of our pensions, the dumbing down of education…
Really the list of Labour failures is almost endless - why don’t we hear more about it? I do wonder about the hunger for power as others have commented.
This would NOT be a good election to lose though a la 1992 (allegedly) - some form of PR would be inevitable after a hung parliament, and I don’t think the tories could contrive to be so bad as to allow a Labour overall majority even if they tried.
84. Every union member is asked if they wish to opt into the political levy.(It was Major’s attempt to break the link)
They can accept or decline, almost all union members opt into the political levy. The Union can decide where to send it but nearly all unions support the Labour party (well they did set it up!).
As I said it’s the most transparant funding stream for any political party. It is much better than reliance of wealthy individuals giving hand cash for unspecified reasons (and that applies to any party!)
Whelan’s sister used to be my economics teacher. Very civilised lady. It’s hard to believe they’re related.
98 Get the names right Tim…Its Wee Willie and Hapless Harperson
Bob Crow is the other motivator for Tories to come out and vote.
Like Ken Livingstone you either love him or hate him.
Bring it on Bob.
I’d expect most voters on hearing “Macmillan” would assume he died a few years back, and ignore the story.
102. “Edward McMillan-Scott joined the LDs years ago in spirit.”
Odd that the Tories allowed him to stand as one of their candidates just a few short months ago, then.
paulwaugh
Re Uddin. Lords sources hint that CPS misinterpreted their exes definition of “weekend visit”. It means ‘overnight’ stay, they say.
95 - It isn’t a feature of proportional representation - it’s a feature of defections per se.
UKIP have more MPs in Castle Point than any other party (indeed no other party has any MPs in Castle Point) despite that party finishing a poor fourth under FPTP in 2005.
48
‘48.i think the tories have to get nasty in respect of BA strikers. Most people realise they are not that badly paid and will not have much sympathy.’
That’s an understatement,the average BA cabin crew staff gets double the salary of their equivalent at Virgin and the BA cabin crewe Director (head waiter / waitress in plain English) get £ 60,0000.
75.”Charlie Whelan, Unite’s political director, is not just running Brown’s outsourced election operations, he is once again back at the heart of government”
A political director, what a very grand title indeed, what is does his actual job description entail?
98 tim, since you consider Hague so useless why do you bother attacking him? Wouldn’t your time be better spent on another victim?
Strange to see you posting here now. Shouldn’t a busy house husband such as yourself be out and about on the school run, or preparing for the arrival of ’she who wears the trousers in your home’ later today? Those cushions won’t plump themselves.
113. We’re a broad church, JK.
“Edward McMillan-Scott joined the LDs years ago in spirit.”
Odd that the Tories allowed him to stand as one of their candidates just a few short months ago, then.
by James Kelly March 12th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Yes after he signed up to and fought an election campaign on a manifesto which included setting up a new grouping in the EuroParliament.
Once elected he immediately reneged on that and stood against the candidate the new grouping put forward.
Its called being double faced, or two timing, or a welcher on the electorate.
116 - I’m not sure that “getting nasty” with fairly ordinary working people is the way to go for the Tory party. There are industrial disputes all the time. They result from a breakdown between workers and employers. It isnt always the workers’ fault and it would be damn silly to present yourself as generally being against the workers’ side seeing as so many of them vote.
I am enjoying the idea that Charlie Whelan is organising this strike and forcing BA crew to go along. Is there even the slightest evidence that this is the case?
In other news, do not expect the public to be surprised that Labour is funded by the unions. Everyone knows this already.
channel4news
A £270m loan guarantee has been given to General Motors to help secure the company’s #Vauxhall operations in Britain - Lord Mandelson.
dizzy_thinks
Breaking - Govt announces loan guarantee to secure the production of rubbish cars
120 Witan
the bit I don’t understand is why he can continue. If he was elected off a party list, why can’t the party replace him ?
I see the Tories on here who thought the Ashcroft stuff was a non story have all finally realised that Hague is now so tainted by the story non story that he is not fit for purpose as a front line TV performer when a story such as UNITE/BA comes up.
The MacMillan Scott story gives the Tories extremist alliance in Europe another outing, and is yet another decision which the hapless Hague bears responsibility for.
by tim March 12th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Another BUM posting by Farmer Tim.
Who is worried about MacMillan Scott, I bet if you ask the next 100 people that you meet who is he, none will know of him.
There is no need for Hague or any other MP to attack the Union on this strike, as the press will do this, and Joe Public will make his own mind up.
Labour is finished.
119. On the issue of Europe, it’s a church that’s narrowed at a dizzying rate over the last twenty years. It’s hard to believe that in 1990 Tory MPs ganged together to depose a Prime Minister for not being pro-European enough!
103: ‘Soldiers letter? Bullygate? Baby P? The Tory problem seems to be the opposite - they are TOO keen put the boot in and go on the attack when it’s not appropriate.’
Baby P was a legitimate matter of child-protection policy. The Tories never uttered a word about Brown’s bodged letter (rightly). The Tories barely uttered a word about Brown’s bullying (wrongly).
Speaking of persecution, Tory attacks (or rather blanket attacks by individual Tories) on union members and other workers & working class types as lazy, shiftless, brainless, etc, etc, etc are like manna from heaven for Labour leaders and candidates.
The way that true blue ranters love to go on thusly is one of the signs that you people just don’t get it. Or are as internally massochistic as Eric Massa!
You might want to note, that in the US the Republicans have generally eschewed this line for the last generation. Which is one reason why they’ve been so successful at winning the votes of millions of US union members and other working stiffs, regardless of what union leaders do and tell them to do.
48
‘UNITE not only have backed labour but have recieved government funding so surely this must be highlighted’
Forgot to add in my previous post that the annual amount of taxpayers money that gets passed to the unions by this government, under the guise of the ‘modernisation fund’ is roughly equivalent to the amount of money that the Unions give to Labour in political donations.
Are the Unions so far behind and antiquated that they need modernising each and every year?
CNN “poll”
…Democratic leaders must persuade 216 of its 253 members to support the legislation.
The Senate plan becomes mathematically impossible to pass if 38 House Democrats vote no and Republicans remain unified in their opposition.
Of the 39 Democrats who voted no on the House plan in November, 11 have indicated that they would vote against the Senate plan as written, six remained uncommitted, and 20 have not returned repeated calls for comment. One member, Parker Griffith of Alabama, became a Republican in December. An additional member, Rep. Eric Massa of New York, resigned his seat Monday.
CNN also contacted a number of House Democrats who voted in favor of the November House bill and who also represent conservative or competitive districts.
Of those, Reps. Michael Arcuri of New York, Marion Berry of Arkansas, Tim Bishop of New York, Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, Daniel Lipinski of Illinois and Bart Stupak of Michigan said they would vote against the Senate bill as written but said they would consider supporting it with significant changes.
At least eight members remained uncommitted, saying they would wait to see the final legislation before announcing how they would vote.
Stupak leads a coalition of conservative Democrats who will probably play a key role in the health care vote calculus. …The Michigan congressman has been negotiating with House Democratic leaders in an effort to address the abortion issue and signaled that a resolution was possible.
“Congressman Stupak has not reached an agreement on abortion funding in the health care legislation,” spokeswoman Michelle Begnoche said. “Last Thursday, the congressman had meaningful discussions with Chairman [Henry] Waxman and Majority Leader [Steny] Hoyer. Congressman Stupak expects further meetings this week and remains optimistic that language can be worked out.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/11/health.care.votes/
“his party doesn’t want to be tagged as “union-bashers”.”
Why not? Do surveys suggest a love-in between the public and the unions? Unlikely, since fewer and fewer of them are members, but more and more of them would like to fly away on holiday without some half-arsed cabin crew cancelling their flight.
123 Scott P
given so many other of Lord Ms efforts to help manufacturing, it will turn out to be all hot air and the jobs will go. Luton first.
102-Haha! Just the type the LDs need. Should fit in no problems.
120. “Yes after he signed up to and fought an election campaign on a manifesto which included setting up a new grouping in the EuroParliament.”
But that was (I think) well before the membership of the ECR group was announced.
YouGov asked Imagine your own local MP had been made to pay back some of their expenses. Would this make you less likely to vote for them at the election, or would it make no difference?
I would be less likely to vote for them - 57%
No difference - I would still vote for them - 13%
No difference - I wouldn’t vote for them anyway - 20%
Don’t know - 10%
That looks like a leading question to me. What about a “I would be more likely to vote for them” option?
Question for SeanT: Do ordinary members of the public in Cornwall know what Mebyon Kernow is? Is it as well known to the general public as, say, Plaid Cymru?
John
John March 11th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
This is not me. How do we have people on here with the same name?
by John March 11th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
I presume you are new around here. I suggest that anyone called John should add an initial or surname or nickname in order to avoid confusion.
John Prescott said I’ve just heard the latest poll saying there’s only a three-point difference. We’re on our way, we’re in a fight, and we’re going to win.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, as if, you wish, LOL innit
Mike Smithson What are we all going to talk about when this election’s over?
The result of the general election, the swings, the regional variations, the reliability of the opinion polls, the prospects of various [possible combinations of coalitions or deals in a hung parliament (if there is one), or everybody laughing at Rod Crosby (if there isn’t).
Scott P David Miliband just walked into LBC’s Nick Ferrari Q on election date. Effectively confirmed May 6.
I heard that as well; but he didn’t. Obviously, Milibananaboy doesn’t know the date of the general election any more than I do, because Gordon Brown hasn’t decided yet and wouldn’t tell Miliboy even if he had decided. But in any case, the Foreign Schoolboy’s answer was general and vague enough to fit any date of a GE; it was Nick Ferrari’s question - and not Boy David’s answer - which specified the date.
AndrewG Hitler and Stalin’s respective crimes pale in comparison with the suffering caused by spending half of my school years studying them repeatedly.
All of which pales into insignificance compared with the suffering caused to countless generations of innocent schoolchildren by Shakespeare and his plays.
Sir Norfolk Passmore UKIP have more MPs in Castle Point than any other party (indeed no other party has any MPs in Castle Point) despite that party finishing a poor fourth under FPTP in 2005.
In what sense is zero “more than” zero?
127 - Barely uttered a word? I must have imagined the leader of HM Opposition calling for an “enquiry” into the bullying nonsense then.
Edward McMillan-Scott has done the right thing. He still believes in the same pro-EU cause that he always has, and finds that the Conservative Party has changed around him. His move to the LibDems is best for all sides.
One thing though….
Unlike a Member of Parliament who represents a specific constituency in his/her own right as a person, an MEP comes from a Party List. Therefore if someone elected on that list later vacates their MEP “seat”, the next person on the party list is promoted.
Mr McMillan-Scott should really resign as he is now sitting under false pretenses, unlike an MP who has a personal mandate.
123 ‘A £270m loan guarantee has been given to General Motors to help secure the company’s #Vauxhall operations in Britain - Lord Mandelson.’
Rover received similar funding shortly before the last election. How long will £270M keep GM operating in the UK?
Mandy’s found some money behind the sofa for GM.
On topic, not if it will impact on the election but it can’t HELP Labour. The Sun leader was pretty negative but I guess that’s only to be expected.
131 - “Unlikely, since fewer and fewer of them are members”
Millions and millions are still members though. You may think that bashing millions and millions of voters is the way to go but I doubt many sensible Tories agree. Nooone posting here knows the real ins and outs of the BA dispute. That hasnt stopped many people from posting completely ill-informed and inflamatory stuff about it though.
124. alanbrooke the bit I don’t understand is why he can continue. If he was elected off a party list, why can’t the party replace him ?
Because he was elected as an individual. The “off a list” bit is much less important than the “he was elected” bit. It would be a tyranny against the voters if a party were allowed to sack the top two or three elected candidates from a list and replace them with others from further down.
Alanbrooke because there is no mechanism in that home of democracy called the EuroParli.
It is not that different from the situation which would exist in Westminster in similar circumstances. But I would not want to be in his shoes come the next lot of elections. He must be hoping Labour are still in power to reward him for his disloyalty and deceit with a peerage by then.
And they would if they could and give as a reason his record of honesty and probity in office, too.
128 Sea Shanty Irish
I don’t understand.
Few people are suggesting that the Tories attack union members. They are suggesting they attack union leaders - especially Whelan.
Whelan is a good target. He is probably hated even more by Labour than by the Tories - and certainly union members will have no loyalty to him.
125 - Yet you think Charlie Whelan is a household name organising BA cabin crew.
Most people recognise that in the recession UNITE been pretty flexible on pay and conditions, particularly in the high profile car plants.
Willie Walsh is not a manager whos does that sort of thing though, his track record tells you all you need to know.
120 - The manifesto didn’t say that the group would include anti semites and homophobes, indeed Hague and Francois specifically refused to answer questions on who their new partners would be before the election.
137. “Mr McMillan-Scott should really resign as he is now sitting under false pretenses, unlike an MP who has a personal mandate.”
Well, that’s one of the romantic fictions of FPTP, but in reality there’s not a lot of difference. 95% (at least) of MPs would not have a prayer of being elected without their party label.
77
I believe the donation is to the union’s political fund, not the Labour Party.
Wasn’t there a poll of Unite members that showed significant support for the Conservatives? (Google-fu is letting me down)
100: Are you claiming that Whelan can’t control the strike? Or that he doesn’t have a separate agenda he’d like to twist Brown’s arm over?
143 - The problem there is that this strike has nothing to do with Whelan. Nothing.
113 - parties tend to do that when candidates happily sign up to their manifesto. When they turn around and suddenly say they don’t like what they’ve just been elected on, then you have problems…
James Kelly March 12th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Tedious waffle.
As Labour is funded by the unions, so the Tories are funded by all types of folk from the City. It was ever thus. In the great scheme of things, over recent years is it the members of UNITE or the bosses of City hedge funds that have done most to damage the UK economy? The answer most people in the country would give is not the answer our Tory PB chums would respond with.
137 “Mr McMillan-Scott should really resign as he is now sitting under false pretenses, unlike an MP who has a personal mandate.”
McMillan-Scott to resign? ha ha
In other news, John Prescott is slimmer of the year, Arsene Wenger criticises one of his own players for a foul and Nick Griffin converts to Islam…
150. “Tedious waffle.”
But I note not ‘factually inaccurate’.
Any Tory who thinks Union bashing will win votes is presumably in the category that thinks William Hague is an attractive politician. And IDS was misunderstood..
128 - I think that since bashing the unions led to a landslide in 1987 when there were MILLIONS more union members, bashing the remaining unions will hardly be an election loser.
Most union members are in for the legal cover. The activists (not many left) all vote Labour anyway.
The issue is probably very marginally important anyway.
JohnLoony on “John”,
147 - I do not think Whelan has any control over the strike at all. If it were down to him, my guess is that he would like to see it called off immediately.
151 SO
how specifically have hedge funds damaged the economy? Give us an example.
147 - “Are you claiming that Whelan can’t control the strike?”
Am I claiming that the bleeing obvious is true? Yes, yes I am. This strike isnt a political operation, it’s an industrial relations ones within BA.
John
John March 11th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
This is not me. How do we have people on here with the same name?
by John March 11th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
I presume you are new around here. I suggest that anyone called John should add an initial or surname or nickname in order to avoid confusion.
I have changed it to John S
I have been on for about 2 months, but not seen another John on here before? On most sites it will ask for your name, but will ask you for another if that name is used at present.
John S
158 - Read what I wrote again.
I hope that loads of wavering voters will vote for UKIP or Green in their thousands, as long as they are in safe seats. If they are in marginal seats, they should either hold their nose and vote Conservative (if they prefer Conservative to Labour) or vote for their preferred minor party anyway (if they prefer Labour to Conservative).
148 Neil
I don’t know how UNITE works, I don’t know what role Whelan is or isn’t playing in the strike. It’s no doubt minimal; he’s much more interested in briefing against Darling than the welfare of his members.
Nevertheless, why should that have any bearing on the Tory strategy? The message is very potent, regardless of whether it is completely accurate or not:
Whelan is Brown’s best mate, Whelan was involved in smeargate, Whelan smeared Darling, Whelan directs the Labour campaign funds, Whelan selects UNITE candidates, UNITE are striking and Brown isn’t acting.
143, wibbler - “few people”? More than just a few; take a re-gander at some of the comments above, let alone in many previous threds.
By the way, would the list of airline employee malcontents/nincompoopps include Capt. Sullenberger? Who recently retired, noting the serious deterioration of working conditions, etc for commercial airline workers?
136: ‘I must have imagined the leader of HM Opposition calling for an “enquiry” into the bullying nonsense then.’
Yes, and that’s all they did - bloomin’ pathetic. The Tories should have called for a vote of no confidence in Parliament on the grounds of national security. A psychopath has his finger on the nuclear button!
137: He was quite happy to use the tory ticket to secure his place in the parliment first.
I have no problems with him deciding the tory party has changed not to his liking, or joining the Lib-Dems. I do have an issue with him doing it after standing as a tory, getting his seat, then doing it.
Especially under this PR party list system, as he’s effectively de-frauded the electorate out of the representation they voted for.
137 - There’s an element of truth in that, but in practice it’s well established precedent which is observed on all sides that defectors don’t resign. For example, Sajjad Karim, who defected in the other direction in 2007, didn’t resign.
108 RedRiding
The quote below is from a 2007 Matthew Parris article:
“…But approach the websites of Amicus, Bectu, BFAWU, Aslef, Aspect, Community, Connect, CWU, EIS, FBU, GMB, NASUWT, RMT, TGWU, Ucatt, Unity or Usdaw as a would-be applicant for membership, and in no case that I can establish does the online application form notify you of your right to opt out of the system of “affiliation” to the Labour Party. “Affiliating” on behalf of members allows the union’s political fund to pay whopping “affiliation fees” (plus, often, cash donations too) to Labour.
Not that as a potential recruit to the union you are likely to be inquiring in the first place. Dig around elsewhere on trade union websites and you may be able to find that most do mention somewhere that joining the affiliation scheme is not obligatory. But is there a discount in that case? Eleven of the eighteen unions listed above make no mention of any possibility of a reduced membership fee, should an applicant opt out. So to most union members it does not appear that they could get their money back if they opt out. In which case why even bother to try? Few surely will.
Let us sum up. In the online form an applicant must complete to join, would-be members are not being notified — by the overwhelming majority of trade unions — of any right to opt out of political affiliation; and though elsewhere on most (not all) of their websites it is possible to discover that this right exists, the majority make no mention of a possible discount. Is it an unfair summary of the position to say that applicants with no particular wish to give money to the Labour Party are being being thrown off the scent?
It would certainly seem so. So successful has recruitment to their affiliation schemes proved that Usdaw and Nacods have managed to affiliate to Labour on behalf of a claimed 100 per cent of their members. CWU has done even better, with 104 per cent of members affiliated. Amicus is the winner, however, at 109 per cent. These are not secret corruptions, but openly accepted practice. The explanation for such Soviet results is that the Labour Party receives £4 for each trade union member affiliated. The money buys Labour Party voting rights based on the numbers affiliated. Thus, in policy and leadership votes within the Party, a terracotta army of nominal “affiliated members” is ranged behind each union, who, to gain extra influence, buy as many of these dummies as they can afford, at £4 each.
You will see at once that the connection between the individual union member and the Labour Party is a convenient fiction.
…there’s reason to think union practices may already be illegal under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000; and, if not already illegal, may be outlawed by EU-inspired legislation coming into effect next year, according to which it will be an offence to induce anyone to enter a contract by “omit[ing] or [hiding] material information, or [providing] it in an unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely manner”.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3019044.ece
144 et al It was pretty well understood that the Conservatives would be leaving the EPP, and would be joining up with the Polish and Czech Conservatives, long before the selections started.
So, EMS did stand under false pretences.
Like so many politicians, he matches third rate abilities with a first rate ego.
I assume this marks the end of the legal action that he threatened against the Conservatives.
160. Oh - There must have been at least two “John”s because of the confusion. But what I meant is that there is already JohnLoony, John L, Jon C, John This, Jophn That, and John Threebagsfull. Similarly, there are various “Chris”es, one of which became a Christina. At least we’re not in Korea, where a third of the population is called “Kim”.
163 - Well if you are not concerned about accuracy then you can of course try that line of attack. I think that having no regard for accuracy may come back to hurt you in the long term and you still cant bash Whelan over this without also appearing to be againt the workers which, in my view, is not a great line for Tories to take in this instance. (Though what do I know and I doubt the Tories base their strategy on my witterings
)
166. “Especially under this PR party list system, as he’s effectively de-frauded the electorate out of the representation they voted for.”
As a matter of interest, would you use the same strong language in respect of the Welsh Assembly member Mohammad Ashgar who defected to the Tories a few months ago in the same circumstances, and who dismissed all calls for him to resign (as indeed did the Welsh Tory leader)?
168 - Hilarious. CWU gains Moscow Central.
143, wibbler (again) re: Whelan, my guess is that before the strike most UNITE members wouldn’t have known him from a whole in the ground. Now fear & hatred of the unknown is commonplace, but ain’t this taking it a bit far.
As for today, well, until I see some actually polling or focus group results, reckon that union members just might perceive Whelan as sticking up for them. Which is generally NOT the road to unpopularity. Of course the rest of the world (esp. the flying public) may hate his guts.
Just ask the ghost of John L. Lewis!
166 - Dan Hannan was happy to use the Tory Party to gain a place in the European Parliament too, depite resigning his spokesman position in protest at Camerons referendum policy.
Maybe Hannan should resign or Cameron should boot him?
Sadly many tories are more worried by referenda purity than alliances with the far right.
E Mcmillan-Scott
Since MEPs are elected by a list system I assume it is not the individual who is elected but the party representative, so no doubt he will be replaced? Or, not.
123 “dizzy_thinks
Breaking - Govt announces loan guarantee to secure the production of rubbish cars”
Well, Dizzy had better stick to politics because he knows nothing about the car industry.
The new model Vauxhall Astra is being produced in the UK, and is an excellent car which has attracted very good reviews from the motoring press. There is no reason why this should not be a great success in providing jobs and exports for the UK economy.
I’m a founder member of the “anti-Gordon Brown club”, but I will not blindly criticise Labour for every single move that it makes.
169 - No it wasn’t.
Hague refused to say, the hook up with the extremist parties was not a given.
Anyone who thinks union funding of Labour depends on the conscious and informed decision of hundreds of thousands of individuals, freely offered a choice of political parties (or none) to which their donation could be be made, clearly lives in a world of utter fantasy.
But since that fantasy exists, a future Conservative government should exploit it by passing legislation to ensure that such a choice is indeed offered.
148 ‘The problem there is that this strike has nothing to do with Whelan. Nothing’
How funny. neil, your own post at 140 suggest that no-one ‘know the real ins and out’, and yet here you are suggesting for definite that Whelan is not involved. Make your mind up.
177 - “I’m a founder member of the “anti-Gordon Brown club”, but I will not blindly criticise Labour for every single move that it makes.”
Which makes you are rare gem on this site
166 Agree that under a party list defections are undemocratic but let’s not be too self righteous, the Tories gladly welcomed Sajjad Karim from the Lib Dems, one of the few non-white faces they had, in the last EU Parliament.
Hmmm, BA strikes news blows up today in the media. Chatter about the Unite/Labour/Whelan/Brown links starts to nibble at the fringes of this story. And suddenly on a Friday afternoon Lord Mandelson makes this announcement.
Just like the old days, I suspect this story was supposed to be a big government announcement on its own next week as part of the government’s daily strategy GE campaign grid, but its been brought forward to deflect this story from getting some legs and running.
159: I note you aren’t denying that Whelan has a hidden agenda that he’d like to arm-twist Brown about. we’ll leave judgement on how much influence he has over the strike to events.
180 - Where’s the inconsistency between having the first clue about how a union works and labour law and not knowing anything about the internal industrial relations of a company?
Philippe, you may be learning the hard way the dangers of putting your faith (let alone your loonies!) in the Congress of the United States!
But it is inspirational, that with you, as with the long-suffering American people, hope springs eternal.
Of course I share your hope that Congress will indeed pass health care reform, warts and all. And NOT just for short-term political reasons.
130- Philippe, take a look at the more comprehensive, and more current, whip count from The Hill:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare-
In a nutshell, Obamacare is defeated if 38 or more Dems vote against it. According the The Hill, there are currently 26 Dem votes that are firm no, likely no, or leaning no. That means 12 more no votes will defeat it. They then list an astounding 79 House Dems who are undecided. Importantly, none of the Stupak gang or Hispanic caucus dissenters are counted among the “no” votes. You can do the math yourself.
If those Peers and MPs who’ve been named and shamed had an ounce of integrity between them they would have resigned and stood down immediately. But no, they cling to power and their gold-plated pensions and “removal costs”. This woman and those like her who are not standing down, will continue to foul both Houses with their presence and continue to make legislation for the rest of us.
The British people have been cheated in so many ways over the past decades and this is only one more example. I just keep holding my breath waiting for one of them to do the decent and honourable thing but I can barely breathe now.
Do we concede that the possibility of a Hung Parliament is a threat to our economic stability and vote Conservative or do we say ’sod the lot of you’ and run the risk of getting Brown and Labour back again? Due to the way the govt has changed electoral boundaries and because of the already in-built bias against the Conservatives Cameron has to win far more votes than Brown in order to form a majority government. I’m no good with statistics and numbers - check out Political Betting which seems to be a reliable indicator. There has to be a way to get rid of them via the first past the post system.
http://callingengland.blogspot.com/2010/03/so-unsurprisingly-i-suppose-there-will.html
160. Oh - There must have been at least two “John”s because of the confusion. But what I meant is that there is already JohnLoony, John L, Jon C, John This, Jophn That, and John Threebagsfull. Similarly, there are various “Chris”es, one of which became a Christina. At least we’re not in Korea, where a third of the population is called “Kim”.
by JohnLoony March 12th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Glad I was not called Tim !!!
185. “Of course I share your hope that Congress will indeed pass health care reform, warts and all. And NOT just for short-term political reasons.”
Well said, SSI. This may be the last chance in thirty years the US has to secure a basic human right for all its citizens.
It’s always quite amusing following a defection to see the person’s former colleagues condemning the defector as a notorious dissembler, liar, con-artist, probable drunkard and general scumbag, despite the fact they’ve happily stood full-square behind him as a representative of the party, flag bearer of the cause and all-round good egg for (in this case) a quarter of a century.
Same every time, for every party.
178 tim the hook up with the extremist parties was not a given.
Since both the groups to which Labour and the LibDems belong, and the group the Tories left, contain extremist parties, that is hardly an argument.
But let’s hope Labour and the LibDems return to their ludicrous obsession with Latvian homophobes. The Tories had 13pt to 17pt leads last time Miliband, Huhne etc were wasting their media appearances banging on about it.
Edward McMillan-Scott’s letter to David Cameron
12 March 2010
Dear David,
I am resigning today from my appeal against expulsion from the Conservative party and from the party itself to join the Liberal Democrats for three reasons:
1. I have been around the higher circles of the party long enough, most recently serving on both the Euro-election and general election strategy committees at CCHQ, to know that Euroscepticism is in the hearts of most Conservatives. Your decision to split from the mainstream EPP and create the new ECR group has been universally condemned, even by rightwing commentators such as the Economist as a “shoddy, shaming alliance”. You say you will not “bang on about Europe” and your spokesman make warm noises. But I fear that on Europe you say one thing in opposition and will do another in government.
2. You continue to refuse to accept that Michał Kamiński, who now leads the ECR and against whom I stood and won re-election as vice-president of the European parliament last July, has had “antisemitic, homophobic and racist links”. You say that you are against extremism at home, yet you propitiate it abroad.
3. My family, friends and those who work with me will all confirm that I have sought in good faith an amicable resolution of my dispute at all levels in the party. I have written to you on several occasions without a reply and have pursued the appeal process to which you submitted me in the diminishing expectation of fairness. I have stated my case modestly in the media. Last weekend your lawyers made clear that the appeal would continue to be rigged by you, despite your public pretensions to decency and fairness. As my friend Henry Porter put it in the Observer, your response has been “thuggish and panicky”. You say one thing in public and do another in private.
My reasons for joining the Liberal Democrats are that in Nick Clegg they have a leader whom I like, admire and respect. They are internationalists, not nationalists. They are committed to politics based [on] the values of fairness and change, but you are committed to power for its own sake.
Yours sincerely,
Edward McMillan-Scott MEP
Vice-president of the European parliament, responsible for democracy and human rights
183 - I’d have thought the big event for you this week would be the massive deployment of SamCam to perk up Daves flaccid poll ratings.
172: Yes, I probably would. Under a PR list system, the individual is not elected, so if they wish to defect, they should resign, and stand again.
Different from a single member consituancy, where you elect a member, and even there I would consider it more democratic if you resigned your postion, and re-stood under your new party.
178. There we go again, calling parties of government in Eastern European extremist. And yet, amazingly, the left want more Europe, despite the fact all these eastern Europeans are apparently extremists.
178 That’s just wrong. Every Conservative knew they were coming out of the EPP, and they were well aware that negotiations with the Czechs and Poles were in hand.
Afternoon all. I see that the big news this afternoon is that a man with no principles has joined a party with no principles.
Im fact Ken Clarke appeared on the R4 PM programme yesterday waxing lyrical on this subject, not letting Carolynn Quinn talk over him. The main thrust of the item was that the Government wasn’t taking any action to resolve the forthcoming strike.
UNITE = The provisional wing of the Labour Party
Hmmm. Robert Peston says that the collapse of Lehman Brothers was due to them hiding toxic levels of debt and crappy financial regulation in London.
Is this an allegory?
some would say it is unedifying that the deals that buried the $50bn of assets were not permissible on Wall Street but could be done in London.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/03/lehman_how_50bn_was_buried_in.html
190 Well, they know him best.
188 - John S - don’t worry - I called myself John C for the first couple of months I was here until it turned out that another John C had also been hanging around the place.
Back in the fourteenth century, 35% of the male population was called John , with another 15% called William and a further 20% called either Richard, Thomas or Robert. What heady days those must have been…
Great News Edward MacMillan-Scott has become a LibDem. So there we have it, abandon your principles, give meaningless promises and go back on your word and you are welcomed into the LibDem fold.
198: ‘UNITE = The provisional wing of the Labour Party’
I’d have said more…
LABOUR = The provisional wing of Unite
183, ChristinaD - you are almost certainly correct, dear lady!
BUT ask yourself this question: where is YOUR Lord M when you need him?
JUST as over here in US, as a Demorcrat, I ask myself, where is OUR Tom DeLay when we need him?
185- SSI, I don’t at all doubt the sincerity of your statement that your hopes for Obamacare have nothing to do with the immediate political consequences, since those consequences are likely to be dire! It’s tough to pass an enormous bill that the public strongly rejects and then receive a reward at the ballot box.
Mr Cameron’s wife Samantha has given her first TV interview to Trevor Macdonald. It will be shown on Sunday but the first clips will be released tonight - what will it reveal?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2010/03/friday_12_march_2010.html
Can FOI be used to find out what the modernisation fund is actually being spent on? I’m sure it would be very interesting. As part of the drive towards transparency and open accounting, taxpayers have the right to know how their money is being spent surely?
test
“You could have it all, my Empire of dirt. I will Let you down, I will make you Hurt” (Hurt, J Cash)
The closing tune of the latest Guido news with pictures of G Brown.
http://order-order.com/2010/03/12/guy-news-preview-gordon-will-let-you-down/
Guido and the bloggers fill the role that the M.I.A. Conservative HQ media folk fail to do.
I think this decontamination of the “nasty”party brand by Cameron will have gone too far if it means that they pull their punches.
If defeating Brown means descending to his level,then they’ve got to go there.Or does Cameron want to emulate another unsuccessful Tory leader,Austen Chamberlain,of whom Lloyd George simply observed”he always played the game and he always lost it”.
94 - Not all eastern Europeans are extremists don’t be daft, indeed the Czech ODS which is in the Tory group are uncomfortable with some of the homophobes and anti semites in the ECR group.
The Latvian Party is now tiny, its policy of H)locaust revisionism and ethnically cleansing Russians not a vote winner.
Thank God ‘BenM’ and ‘Lilly Allen’ are paid trolls and not real people. Imagine if they met, fell in love, and, as Shakespeare put it, “peopled this world with Calibans”!
210 - Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails might have something to say about your attribution of those lyrics.
195 - The rule on eastern European parties that PBCers should follow is “dont mention them - you’ll just give Tim an opening to bore for Britain about it”!
Election Results 11th March 2010
Dacorum BC, Adeyfield West
Con 486 (32.8; -8.6)
Lab 429 (29.0; -13.3)
LD Steve Wilson 362 (24.5; +8.1)
BNP 203 (13.7; +13.7)
Majority 57
Turnout 35.83%
Con hold
Percentage change is since May 2007
Wellingborough BC, Redwell West
Con 570 (57.2; -20.3)
Lab 186 (18.7; -3.9)
BNP 84 (8.4; +8.4)
LD Penny Wilkins 72 (7.2; +7.2)
English Democrats 62 (6.2; +6.2)
Green 23 (2.3; +2.3)
Majority 384
Turnout 37.7%
Con hold
Percentage change is since May 2007
Brandon and Byshottles PC, West
LD John Kelly 477 (55.7)
Lab 380 (44.3)
Majority 97
Turnout not known
LD hold
Lawley and Overdale PC, Central
LD Deborah Crane 381 (62.7)
Lab 227 (37.3)
Majority 154
Turnout 17%
LD gain from Lab
If Labour’s so down on homophobic parties, why did it march up the GOP’s lower intestine?
PS: Shut the f*** up tim you c***
antifrank, I just attributed the version to J. Cash. But you are correct about the lyrics being 9inch nails.
A great song and a great version by the man in black.
Thanks Stars,
The math looks dire indeed for ObamaCare :
If 18 of the 26 probable “nay” vote against it in the end; and 25% of the undecided do the same — then the Bill won’t pass.
***
SSI : My loonies are now running against Pelosi and Obama….
I’ve bet on it before betting against it!
211- This is connected to the pitfall of the Tories trying to please their media tormentors as the path back to power. As long as Tory criticism of Labour = Nasty Tories and Labour criticism of Tories = insightful and honest analysis, the Tories can’t possibly win this game. The Tories have to appeal directly to the people and not fall into the media game. If they have some potent attacks to deliver against Labour that will connect with voters, they’d better do it.
217 - I’m a huge fan of Johnny Cash. He even managed to make a Sting song sound great. His version of “Hurt” was for a long time my most-played track on my ipod.
215 - Ha Ha, I’ve even bored myself with it now.
Still a great example of the Hague genius though.
207 - Mr Cameron’s wife Samantha has given her first TV interview to Trevor Macdonald. It will be shown on Sunday but the first clips will be released tonight - what will it reveal?
It will reveal a number of Tory PB posters who attacked Sarah Brown to be total hypocrites.
Latest newspaper circulation figures - several of which are getting pretty embarrassing, eg
Guardian - 284k
Independent - 183k
Are these consistent with pollsters weightings?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/table/2010/mar/12/abcs-dailies-february-2010
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/table/2010/mar/12/abcs-sundays-february-2010
Didn’t Trent Reznor say something along the lines of “That’s Johnny Cash’s song now.”
The evidence is mounting day by day of quite how viciously the public sector trade unions intend to oppose the spending cuts that are now so essential to save the economy.
…
Now, in the latest edition of Public Servant magazine, Brendan Barber of the TUC makes naked threats of “conflict” against a possible Cameron Government. Ever the reasonable man, Brendan starts off full of sweetness and light about a “business-like relationship”, “proper dialogue” and “constructive” engagement - as long as Cameron doesn’t try to do anything about public spending or the EU.
So that’s alright, then - Britain will be strike-free just as long as nothing is done to deal with the fiscal crisis or the democratic disaster.
This is the political equivalent of a bank robbery. “Nobody give us any trouble, and no-one’s gonna get hurt” is the traditional refrain of people toting sawn-off shotguns and wearing ski masks, but it is now being deployed in the public finance debate by the head of the Trade Union movement.
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/campaign/2010/03/unions-offer-to-be-reasonable-on-anything-except-the-important-stuff.html
223. Don’t be an idiot.
Re: party switchers, that is politicos who win under one banner, then throw it over to join the other (or another) side.
Here is the US, most of these are creeps, pure and simple. With a few notable (and occassionally even honorable) exceptions, whatever their post-ratting electoral success, they are NOT trusted by politicos of whatever stripe.
One class of exceptions, is when your party simply goes out of business and into the dustbin of history.
Another is when there is a radical shift in the party system, for example during the US civil rights revolution, when masses of Dixiecrats morphed into Republicans. Sure, plenty of these were creeps on their own (de)merits. BUT the party switch itself was not the creepy thing, that was logical. Note that a similar thing happened on the other side of the fence, in the 1930s when African Americans went from being base voters (where they were allowed to vote) for the Party of Lincoln, to among the most stalwart of New Deal Democrats.
BUT in general, party switchers care only for me, myself and I. And it shows.
222 Mike L - Yes, I was wondering the other day how frequently pollsters update their weightings for newspaper readership.
My guess is that it is rapidly becoming obsolete as a way of ensuring a representative sample.
208 - There’s actually quite a lot on the BIS website already, but no doubt you could use FOI to enquire further on the results of audits etc.
212 Tim
Not to forget Labour’s unpleasant EU allies; terroists, communists, and crackpots.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/05/labours-unsavory-allies-.html
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/10/labours-unsavoury-allies-part-two.html
217. He also covered Depeche Mode’s “Personal Jesus” - but then so did Marilyn Manson!
221, hypocrisy? That’s when you criticise a man for using his family as props, then use yours as PR assets.
I don’t think wives should enter the political sphere beyond the bare minimum. I do think it’s suspicious that Magda’s had no criticism from the MSM, yet before uttering a word the Spectator decided that Mrs. Cameron’s an ‘uber-bitch’.
Official Tory line on Edward MacMillan-Scott joining the LibDems as just announced on the BBC “They’re welcome to him!”
212 ‘, its policy of H)locaust revisionism’
tim, since you clearly hold such strong and justified views on this subject, I trust you’ll ignore the polling and betting comments from a certain member of this parish, or do you simply turn a blind eye when money is involved?
229. Oh, for pity’s sake. Is the Irish Labour Party seriously being offered up as one of these ‘extremist’ organisations?
212 - ‘…indeed the Czech ODS which is in the Tory group are uncomfortable with some of the homophobes and anti semites in the ECR group.’
But isn’t their leader, the President of the Czech Republic, a global-warming denier? Surely far, far, far, far, far worse.
@225: Sorry?
232 about as groundbreaking as their snaffling of the mighty Brian Sedgemoor in the 05 run in
Well huzzah to Mr McMillan-Scott for sticking to his principles and not associating with the weird ranting homophobes and anti-semites in Cameron’s bizarre little grouping for boggle eyed europhobes in the European Parliament!
And isn’t the BA strike frankly a daft issue to rouse all these Tory pom poms on this thread?!
236. Matthew, I think Andrew was responding to a nasty comment from someone else that was swiftly deleted.
226- Absolutely right. Party switching is generally the act of a politician who is desperate, angry, unstable, or some combination of the above. And party switchers tend to have a very poor record of electoral success post-switch.
238 I epxect you fully support your comrades in the Union then Ben?
Smash the union movement!
239. Please leave out the personal abuse. It’s really unsavory, not necessary and unplesant for those of us to want to contribute and be informed.
BA/UNITE - this post from another blog says it all
http://cityunslicker.blogspot.com/2010/03/what-is-unite-getting-out-of-ba-strikes.html
“If you consolidate the assets and liabilities of the company itself and its pension fund, you’d find that the whole thing is about 80% owned by their workers/future pensioners/pensioners.
Why anybody would deliberately f*** over his or her own company is a mystery to me. There’s only so much they can squeeze out qua worker without losing out qua future (or indeed current) pensioner.
And with these threats of strikes, people are starting to book with other airlines to be on the safe side, thus speeding up the imminent demise of BA (or else it will be handed over to the unions, like General Motors).”
234 - Anyone who thinks the Irish Labour Party is extremist really knows nothing about the Irish Labour Party. Prionsias De Rossa, on the other hand, does have something of a murky past (an actual murky past as opposed to the ones SeanT dreams Labour cabinet members have) though to focus on that completely misses the point of his political journey.
Mind you this is just as boring as Tim going on about east Europeans.
240
Just like Churchill…
@239: Ah… I know I’m an idiot, but I thought it was odd that it should be pointed out with respect to that particular comment
240. “Absolutely right. Party switching is generally the act of a politician who is desperate, angry, unstable, or some combination of the above. And party switchers tend to have a very poor record of electoral success post-switch.”
Winston Churchill is popping into my head. In fact, he switched parties twice because it was so much fun the first time…
236. Yes, sorry Matthew, that was aimed at a now non-existent comment!
I might be a c*** but at least my dad still loves me!
245
Bad Movie
People like you give PBers a bad name…
Amid the Tory sour grapes about Edward Macmillan Scott, it is very obviously not the sign of a happy ship to lose your former leader. On the eve of an election where many Tories think the leadership is losing its way, to see a defection like this is clearly pretty terrible for Conservative morale. No wonder we are seeing such b**chy comments… and the fact is that with his stupid alliance with the Polish fruitcakes and a motley bunch of assorted other nutters, Cameron has made yet another unforced error.
EMS represents what used to be the Conservative mainstream- so when a guy like that joins the Liberal Democrats you know that up and down the country the Turnip Taliban are saying unprintable things about the Notting Hill set.
Snowflake Speaks!
Nice bit of stereotyping by Snowflake as she opines on YouGov samples. They are wrong because the working classes can’t be bothered to log on to YouGov, instead they watch soaps or go to the pub.
http://snowflake5.blogspot.com/2010/03/weighing-into-this-poll-weighting.html
Re: Johnny Cash, is interesting that here in Seattle, he has a HUGE base of what you might call new wave fans. Who almost to a woman & man are convinced he was a progressive Democrat. Wheras of course he was a un-base Republican.
Anyway, if you are a Johnny Cashite of any description, check out the following:
A. The live recordings he made at Folsom Prison and at San Quentin, which his (soon to be) wife June Carter Cash. (Note that JC always gave impression he’d spent years behind bars, when in actuallity it was 12 hours or suchlike!)
B. “The Highwayman” which is on record of same name, collaboration between JC, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings and Kris Kristofferson (sp). Which records the journey of an outlaw soul, from a 17th c. English road gent, to an 18th c. sailor, to a 20th c. dambuilder, to a 21st (or later) c. spaceman.
Check it out!
247, most rules have exceptions. You could argue epilepsy is a serious barrier to a good career path, but it didn’t stop Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar.
@248: No problem! I clearly don’t refresh the page often enough to keep track of the flux…
Still O/T, but this is the interview I was thinking about re: JC, Hurt and TR.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/7378167/in_other_words_trent_reznor
224. I don’t condone either argument, but that is the equivalent of Conservatives saying, “if you vote a Labour Governement in, our currency will go down the pan.”
Sad reality is that both scenario’s are right on the money. If the Conservatives get elected, there will undoubtedly be riots and strikes, once the much delayed and much needed grasping of the bloated Public Sector nettle is enacted.
Alternatively, it doesn’t take an ecomonic genius to work out that the markets will react very unfavourably to five more years of Gordon Brown.
‘Could this impact on the general election?’
As the Labourite response on this thread is composed of
‘No it’s a non-issue’
and
‘No, it’s beastly to be beastly to the unions’
the answer must be yes.
170.JohnLoony,
228 - Sir Norfolk
thanks, I’ll go and have a look. Though a few posters seem to be a little rattled by the suggestion of attacking Labour’s links and reliance on UNITE, and are playing it down rather!
252: awww bless Yvette, Still i suppose being married to Ed is enough to drive anyone batty.
259:Bad Movie,
Please, stop being an idiot.
260. Snowflake is not YC - it was definitively confirmed on here.
Start raving batty tho.
251 - Utter and complete tosh.
257 - I’d say the consensus is that its could go either way, may have an effect or may not, both sides need to be careful and the Tories really haven’t got the personnel to exploit it as their front bench is so poor.
We can all agree on that can’t we?
Still no ARS in the BBC poll tracker. Lax bastards.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8280050.stm
240/245 - And Gladstone. Another wrong’un, through and through!
I take S&S’s point in the generality though. There is properly an element of suspicion, and there is a lot to be said for loyalty, going down with the ship etc.
259.
Though a few posters seem to be a little rattled by the suggestion of attacking Labour’s links and reliance on UNITE, and are playing it down rather!
Nothing wrong with the Unions funding Labour. Remember, that’s how the Labour movement got going.
More importantly, Union subs which provide that funding comes from UK taxpaying workers.
Now, I know of a little local difficulty the Tories are currently having which carries a far greater stench. A difficulty the cacophony of denial and diversion on this website could do nothing to mitigate the damage.
253 - In fairness, on the San Quentin album, he tells the story of his one night in jail and even sings a song about it (Starkville City Jail). It’s very funny.
251. I dont think losing Macmillan Scott will be terrible for Tory morale. I think most Tories who have heard of him were pretty annoyed at the way he attacked the party over leaving the EPP and were pretty glad to see him expelled.
Leaving the EPP was a totemic issue for many grassroots Tories so not an unforced error on Cameron’s part. The row over the Poles and Latvians did no harm to the Tories in the polls.
If you think Macmillan Scott was part of the Turnip Taliban then you dont understand the Tory Party; luckily for you!
266 - No need. You’re doing a fair job of defining it yourself.
262: I know..still amusing to think it might be though
One for Clegg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7423145/Attacking-speculators-is-a-good-bet-for-troubled-politicians.html
” As diversionary tactics go, the call to take arms against speculators is a good one. It’s not terribly subtle but then diversionary tactics, by their nature, can’t afford to be, and this was certainly a better try than Basil Fawlty’s old trick of throwing himself to the floor, jumping up, and announcing “Sorry I fainted.” “
268. it might be nice if the Unions gave their members a clear choice about whether they wanted to fund the Labour Party though wouldn’t it?
The LDs are in favour of banning strikes, aren’t they, in favour of arbitration. The Tories should take the same position if they haven’t already.
{I’m in terminal 5 at the moment, funnily enough}.
268 - Is it really the case that non-domiciles are banned from union membership? I rather doubt it.
The LDs are in favour of banning strikes, aren’t they, in favour of arbitration. The Tories should take the same position if they haven’t already.
{I’m in terminal 5 at the moment, funnily enough}.
268 BenM
One problem with union funding is that it’s clear that British taxpayers are being fleeced to benefit Labour’s paymasters.
“Research this week showed the salaries of state workers have risen 15 per cent more than their private counterparts since Labour came to power, though their productivity has fallen.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256788/Gordon-Browns-pay-freeze-public-sector-elite-gesture-politics.html#ixzz0hywFLASw
275 - more to the point; I don’t think those union member donors are also obligated to pay UK tax or any earnings earned abroad. But apparently Lord Ashcroft has to do that.
I see Timmy is off on the old Waffen SS homophobe racist Eastern European rubbish. Just wondering have Labour’s Turkish friends (you know the ones who are now banned in Turkey due to their links to terrorists) been thrown out of the PES? Last I heard the PES were standing shoulder to shoulder with their Turkish brothers in arms…
251: Edward Heath was once the Conservative mainstream. Things have moved on since then.
264: ‘…the Tories really haven’t got the personnel to exploit it as their front bench is so poor.
We can all agree on that can’t we?’
Quite wrong. Why only in the last week or two:
Grayling: humiliated Johnson over crime stats
Fox: humiliated Brown over Chilcot
Hague: humiliated Harriet at PMQs
The Tories have the hounds, it’s their lust to send them in for the kill that I question!
When an elected MP/MEP/councillor/MSP defects from Party A to Party B, it is fairly usual for Party A to condemn him/her, and call for him/her to resign and seek re-election; and it is fairly usual for Party B to welcome him/her and to condemn the bigotry/bullying/whatever which prompted him/her to reject Party A. Party A and Party B then become hypocrites when it happens the other way round and the roles are reversed.
I, for one, am not a hypocrite on such matters; I have always accepted the fundamental principle that an elected member is elected and has a mandate as an individual - even in a list system - and I have never called for such a defector to resign his/her seat. Even if I vote for a Green or Loony or Communist MP, and even if that MP defected to the BNP or NF the very next day and stayed as an elected MP for five years, I would be annoyed but I would not call for him/her to resign.
Matthew Adams March 12th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Thanks for the link to the article.
“Empire of Dirt” and Gordon Brown. Kind of goes together with all the filth he employs.
273 / 275
And that is about the limit of churlish Tory gripes about the Unions really isn’t it?
Union funding is not in the same universe of scandal as the Ashcroft affair is.
Tories could, if they stopped being suspicious of other people for half a second, gather together as a collective and fund their Party of privilege for the few if they so wished. Instead they rely on donations from a self-avowed non dom to bankroll a busted marginals strategy.
So lesson for Tories is stop whingeing when ordinary workers do what they have been doing for most of the last 100 years. You sound bitter.
208 Sarah. “Can FOI be used to find out what the modernisation fund is actually being spent on?”
FOI is not needed. Go to the BIS website : http://tinyurl.com/ydb7su9
You can download a Word Document with details of the successful bids from round 3.
Some examples:
* Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association – Tackling dyslexia discrimination in the workplace
* RMT- New website and Training for Vulnerable Workers
* GFTU – What to Expect When You Start Work: Supporting the Employment Advice Needs of Vulnerable Workers
* BFAWU – Reaching out to vulnerable workers in retail bakery
Nothing sinister, really, though some of the write-ups sound like “Relevant and meaningful scenarios at this moment in time” type language.
268. How much do UNITE get from the “Union Modernisation Fund” each year ?
That comes from the sweat of the private sector - not “da bruddas”.
BenM my only whinge is the ineffectual Tory media operations.
Interesting to compare BBC take on Unite / BA strike in comparison to their obsession with mentioning Ashcroft as often as possible. Not a single mention that Unite basically bankrolls Labour and their MP’s (and kept them from going busto), in comparison with even the BBC Sport pages mentioning the whole Ashcroft stuff when talking about Watford FC.
267.. Benboy…you have changed shifts…not too subtly either
BenM is obviously too dense to realise that the money given by the unions mirrors exactly the money given to them from the public purse in the form of Modernisation Grants.
The Labour Party is funded by me and I don’t like it. In fact I hate it.
It’s my own money as a taxpayer being used to fund Unite, which is then used to bankroll Labour, which I’m not so keen on.
254, MD - yes, Winston Churchill is one of the exceptions. As he himself noted (with a sense of humor rare for the breed) when he famously stated, “Anyone can rat. But it takes real talent to re-rat!”
BTW, here in WA State we have (on a much lesser scale) another exception to the creep rule:
Fred Jarret was a member of city council of Mercer Island (an upscale suburb of Seattle) when he was recruited for the legislature by the Republicans. At a time when only a GOPer was viable in his district. Well, times changed. And Fred, who was well-regarded all around, and still is, eventually decided that he wasn’t happy (indeed was marginalized) within the Republican Party and caucus.
So he left the GOP and joined the Democrats. Now the winds of electoral change were sweeping his area, flipping it from Rep to Dem. BUT Fred did NOT switch in midstream, that is he didn’t cross the aisle. Instead, the next election, he filed as a Democrat. And won by a landslide. In large measure because most of his constituents were in the same boat; the reason they’d voted Republican for legislature was because they thought the GOP was the only game in town. When that was no longer the case, the barn door swung with a vengance.
Now after Fred Jarrett was elected to the state senate as a Democrat, the incumbent King County Executive was appointed to an sub-cabinet post by Obama. Thus creating an open-seat race to succeed him. Fred decided to run for this office (at the urging of many, including yrs truly) but lost in the primary.
After the primary, the Republican candidate Susan Hutchinson (the post is now officially nonpartisan, but that was really a GOP plot!) announced that, if elected, she would appoint Fred Jarrett to be her chief deputy. Which was a great idea.
So great in fact, that when Democratic candidate Dow Constantine was elected (beating SH like a gong) his first act was to appoint Fred Jarret as HIS chief deputy!
285: That just seems to be general funding for union activities. Why is the taxpayer funding it?
281 - You missed Gove. He got Eddie Balls in such a pickle he ended having to make a grovelling apology to Gove over education stats.
284 - Labour also rely on donations from self-avowed non-doms. But don’t let that spoil your childish riff.
I’m not a Tory. You aren’t very good either. If you’re going to be mindlessly partisan (and I haven’t yet seen you post a single thing that is even impliedly critical of the current regime), you shouldn’t be discussing the point of weakness for Labour.
Bit of a plug for ARS.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE62B12T20100312
285 Disraeli - It may not be sinster, but it is a waste of public money. Why have Labour not already made this completely painless saving?
281. Grayling: humiliated Johnson over crime stats
Er, you are kidding surely? Grayling was absolutely torn to shreds over his fiddling of the crime stats!
231 - Morris Dancer - What worries me is that the threads of PB may be totally dominated by Tory posters criticising the massive ground to air deployment of SamCam.
Christina, Sally, JSFL,Plato yourself and EdP had so much to say about Sarah Brown that it will be difficult to get a look in with all the comments attacking Samantha that you all must be preparing to launch.
281 - Grayling is still refusing to publish the document he selectively quoted from, but your comment did make me laugh.
301: I would like to say in my defence, I don’t think I’ve been that critical of Sarah Brown.
If Labour are polling say 29% TO 32% Then they are fairly close to the core and with respect I think most of those voters will have noticed that Labour are linked to Unions. Mandelmort is the lead minister and best equiped to dispell any idea of beer and Sandwiches at Number 10. I don’t see this flying ( sorry ) as an issue unless Wheelan himself becomes the story.
Re McMillian - Scott. As cynical and irelavent as most defections. I didn’t shed many tears when Saj Karim left the Lib Dems and am non plussed at the arrival of another turn coat in the opposite direction.
The office allowances will be a nice boost to the Y and H region but that is about it.
301 tim, please remind me of what I said, and then return to your vacuuming.
297 antifrank
oh please don’t stop Ben in full flow; you have to learn to appreciate him. tim and gabble can happily keep a thread from discussing the economy, labour’s education failures etc. But Ben just seems to walk in and undo all their work. When ben starts on one of his rants everyone quickly ends up discussing the points tim has been steering us away from. I am beginning to think he’s a Tory troll after all.
301. However as one is fairly attractive and the other looks like a bulldog licking wee off a nettle all is fair in love and misogyny.
See Cheryl Cole vs Sharon Osbourne as a good example.
Unions exist to look after the interest of the workers. These workers pay tax and also pay union dues. The unions in turn are taxed on their income, very different from Lord Ashcroft’s donations to Tories.
Some unions chose to affiliate to a political party because they see that party as being the one which will provide the best conditions for their members. There is nothing sinister or underhand in this. The Tolpuddle Martyrs fought hard for union rights, don’t mock their memory.
The government has a duty to remain neutral as this is a dispute between a private company and a union. I’m not sure that Walsh has handled this dispute well.
301. “Christina, Sally, JSFL,Plato yourself and EdP had so much to say about Sarah Brown that it will be difficult to get a look in with all the comments attacking Samantha that you all must be preparing to launch.”
Never fear, there’ll be a ‘fundamental difference’ no-one has thought of yet. The creative process takes a little time.
I’m sick and tired of hearing these mixed messages. One minute people are telling the tories to put the boot in and then the next there saying you don’t want to appear to be ‘union bashing’. Make your bloody mind up. No wonder the tories have trouble getting a coherant message together. I think they should put the boot in but choose their words carefully.
I don’t feel the tories are going to get in front on the economy, especially after Liam Bryne’s comments yesterday. Too many people will be fooled by the fact there will be no more tax rises but they forget Gordon Brown is the master of ’stealth taxes. Time is running out, so they should go for it.
John Loony: yes most Cornish people have very definitely heard of Mebyon Kernow. Not least because they are now ahead of Labour in terms of councillors (Labour have NONE), and overall votes in locals.
They are often in the local press when Cornwall seems to be getting a bad time - they are seen as the authentic *voice* of the county, unlike the LDs or Tories.
Moreover, or so I hear, quite a few Cornish Labour people have defected to MK, adding to their skills and personnel.
It’s not impossible that in a decade they could be in coalition, running the council. And they may even sneak an MP, one day, if they can present themselves as the real voice of trad leftish contrary Cornish non-conformism, unlike the LDs.
The Tories will always prosper in posh or yachtie places like Padstow, Falmouth, Truro, St Mawes, Roseland, the river valleys.
Labour are dead.
309. See 307 - I’m getting my hypocrisy in early.
232.”Official Tory line on Edward MacMillan-Scott joining the LibDems as just announced on the BBC “They’re welcome to him!””
Well done to them.
297. Get over yourself.
Notice how you haven’t made the same criticism for the shrill Tory cheerleaders?
And those Labour (and Lib Dem) Non Doms were open about their status. Ashcroft was not.
Those Labour non Doms are not central to the Party’s forthcoming election strategy. Ashcroft blatantly is. For Ashcroft then to avoid questions about his status is highly suspect and a masive mistake.
And I didn’t make that unforced error, Cameron did. So deal with it.
299. Richard Nabavi. “Why have Labour not already made this completely painless saving?”
It’s called the Union Modernisation Fund because it is nothing to do with Unions, it isn’t about Modernisation, and it isn’t really a Fund.
(Cue “Holy Roman Empire” stories)
It’s a grant which is thrown as a bone to the unions as a sop for their continued support. (It’s a job creation scheme as well, on a small scale).
Hopefully something for the chop in the first few weeks of the next Conservative Government, I would imagine, given the state of the UK finances.
309 - there is a fundamental difference already. One of the two leaders never said something about his family not being props… and then deployed his wife as the most spectacular prop of all time.
301, you seem confused. Mrs. Cameron has not used state funds to provide her with security whilst campaigning (on her own) in a by-election. She has not set up a twitter service to spew out propaganda pieces with nauseating regularity. She has not delved ever deeper into politics for years. She is not the unofficial PR chief of a man who criticised his opponent for using his family as props. Nor is she best friends with that absolutely, bloody brilliant servant (erstwhile, apparently) of Brown.
She is to make a number of speeches and conduct a few interviews in the immediate run up to the General Election.
Personally, I think that is too much. Politically, it probably makes sense. But the two are not comparable, except in your mind which has no room for facts and balance.
I also find it unsurprising but still worth remarking upon that the propagandist Mrs. Brown has had gushing praise from all quarters, whereas Mrs. Cameron has yet to speak and has already been described as an uber-bitch.
Business Secretary Lord Mandelson has announced a 300m-euro ($412m; £270m) loan guarantee to the European arm of General Motors (GM).
The money will help secure operations at the carmaker’s two Vauxhall plants in the UK and those of Opel in Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8564896.stm
PS John Loony.
MK also have the most interestingly named leadership in UK politics:
Interim Chair - Jowan Kereve
Events Officer - Jago Fletcher
National Convenor (and EFAy representative) - Jezz Anbledh
National Secretary - Rhisiart Tal-e-bot
Rhisiart Tal-e-bot???
Eat crow, Lembit.
177 Disraeli
while I share your sentiment on keeping manufacturing in this country I’m afraid history suggest we should remain cynical:
2005 election - promises of Govt. support for Rover before the election - Rover collapses after
2008 euro elections - Liam Byrne makes fine noises about support for LDV before elections - company collapses afterwards
2010 elections - I know what my money’s on
Mandelson is betting on fooling all of the people all of the time
314.. Definitely a different Benboy..much higher class of stupidity on a friday.. must be a student making bsome extra dosh to pay off his student loan..
Are those Potential “No”s from the 79 Undecided?
Of those 41 Undecided Congresspeople, Pelosi needs more than half to pass the Bill (If 18 of the 26 probable “nay” vote against it in the end) :
Jason Altmire (Pa.) * (N) Many view Altmire as key to passage. He said on Fox News he has “open mind.” Voted no in committee and on floor, but bottom line is his yes vote is gettable
Brian Baird (Wash.) (N) Retiring member who bucked party on Iraq war surge
Marion Berry (Ark.) * (Y) Has been critical of the president since announcing his retirement. Strong backer of Stupak language
Sanford Bishop Jr. (Ga.) * (Y) Favors Stupak provision
Tim Bishop (N.Y.) (Y) Must-have vote for leadership. Bishop’s office told CNN that the New York lawmaker wants major changes to Senate bill
John Boccieri (Ohio) * (N) GOP target
Rick Boucher (Va.) (N) GOP target
Allen Boyd (Fla.) (N) Facing primary challenge
Michael Capuano (Y) Wanted to be a senator, but doesn’t trust the Senate. TPM reported that Capuano is leaning no. In an e-mail to supporters, Capuano said he has many problems with Senate measure
Ben Chandler (Ky.) * (N) Keeps cards close to vest; voted no in November
Kathy Dahlkemper (Pa.) * (Y) GOP target. Her yes vote is key to passage
Joe Donnelly (Ind.) * (Y) Among the Stupak dozen — will vote no unless abortion language in Senate bill is changed, according to The Rochester Sentinel
Steve Driehaus (Ohio) * (Y) In toss-up race in November
Bill Foster (Ill.) (Y) GOP target
Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.) (Y) GOP target
Debbie Halvorson (Ill.) (Y) Politically vulnerable, but favored to win her reelection race
Paul Kanjorski (Pa.) * (Y) GOP target
Mary Jo Kilroy (Ohio) (Y) In toss-up race this November
Ron Kind (Wis.) (Y) Represents competitive district. Voted against bill in committee
Ann Kirkpatrick (Ariz.) (Y) GOP target
Ron Klein (Fla.) (Y) GOP target
Suzanne Kosmas (Fla.) (N) Easily won her race in 2008; her 2010 race will be tighter
Jim Langevin (R.I.) * (Y) Langevin’s seat not in danger this fall. He has previously fended off primary challenges
Daniel Lipinski (Ill.) * (Y) Will not vote for abortion language in Senate bill, but has other concerns as well. Democratic leaders cannot count on Lipinski
Betsy Markey (Colo.) (N) Was a late no last time. In early March, Markey declined to be interviewed by Denver Post on her position on bill. Likely target for Democratic leaders
Harry Mitchell (Ariz.) (Y) GOP target
Alan Mollohan (W.Va.) * (Y) In November, seat was considered safe. Now, he’s in a tight race
Chris Murphy (Conn.) (Y) GOP target
Glenn Nye (Va.) (N) In toss-up race
Jim Oberstar (Minn.) * (Y) Wants to vote yes, but also wants Stupak language
Tom Perriello (Va.) * (Y) In toss-up race this fall; Pelosi had long talk with the Virginia Democrat on March 10 on the House floor
Earl Pomeroy (N.D.) * (Y) Voted against bill in committee, and for it on the House floor
Tim Ryan (Ohio) * (Y) Opposes abortion rights; voted for Stupak language
John Salazar (Colo.) * (Y) GOP target
Mark Schauer (Mich.) (Y) In tossup race this fall
Carol Shea-Porter (N.H.) (Y) In toss-up race, according to Cook Political Report
John Spratt (S.C.) * (Y) Budget Committee chairman is in competitive reelection race
Bart Stupak (Mich.) * (Y) More optimistic about brokering a deal on abortion with House leaders, but time is running out
Betty Sutton (Ohio) (Y) GOP target
John Tanner (Tenn.) * (N) House deputy whip not running for reelection, but he still will need to be convinced to get to yes. Voted no in committee and on floor
Dina Titus (Nev.) (Y) Her office told The Hill the congresswoman is undecided. Voted no in committee and yes on the floor last year
David Wu (Ore.) (Y) Was undecided for three hours during 2003 Medicare drug vote, then voted with the GOP
An open letter to Charlie Whelan:
Dear Charlie,
I presume that you read this site. You run Unison, Labour’s main paymaster, so you are de facto the government’s (and the Labour parties’) proprietor.
For some bizarre reason, perhaps just to show off, you have decided to destroy BA. Although BA is now a private company, many of us still think of it as our national flag carrier, and because of its name we think of it as being “British” and a symbol of Britain.
Thanks to your previous efforts, the company is on the ropes. I flew with them last month, and the plane was 80% empty. The BA executive lounge, at a peak midweek time, was empty.
My son is working abroad at this moment, earning money which is remitted to the UK. He, and his work colleagues, return to the UK on 27th March, or at least would have done, if you hadn’t called a strike, having worked flat out without a break for 11 weeks. The company he is working with (an Austrian company) use BA a lot…but will they again? I doubt it, so business is lost for ever.
But every cloud has a silver lining, and your smart-ars*d actions will make it even more certain that even more Unite empoyees will lose their jobs, which means that you will become less able to bankroll Labour. So for that, at least, we should be thankful.
And my son, who is too young to have voted in a general election before will think of you,and unite and BA when he chooses who to vote for.
On the BNP:
I think this is the key to whether the ruling matters:
[Nick Griffin] said that if the party was forced to pay £60,000 in costs it would have some effect on the general election campaign “but not a huge amount”.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7059840.ece
301. Because Samantha Cameron will be making a couple of speeches and an interview, not canvassing in marginals, doing newspaper interviews regularly, introducing her husband to conferences etc etc. Oh, and as for you criticising someone for selective quoting something, after you selective quoting me a few days ago, you can’t say a thing.
However as I’m bringing up a point you don’t want mentioned, you will therefore ignore me completely
322. Post of the day.
316/7. Another David/Morris Dancer - perhaps the creative process doesn’t take quite as long as I thought. I salute your inventiveness, gentlemen!
Not sure if the dispute will move the polls, but it does get alot of news coverage and puts the spotlight back on Labour and their links to the unions such as UNITE.
300: ‘Grayling was absolutely torn to shreds over his fiddling of the crime stats!’
Ha ha! The only thing torn to shreds was Alan Johnson’s composure! He went overnight from the lovable Labour cheeky chirpy funny man to a grim old party hack snarling that the Tories were the rapists’ friend. Send in Chris Grayling and Labour are flailing!
307 Which one do you mean, beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Sarah is beautiful, Samantha is beautiful.
325. Will she be “crying” on the front page of the Daily Mail for the mother of a mentally unstable prisoner who, under a law her own husband has personally brought in, can be extradited to the USA without any evidence ?
240 The only recent principled switches I can think of are those of Alan Howarth, in 1995, and Richard Balfe, a few years later, who simply had a change of heart, rather than being motivated by picque, frustrated ambition etc.
251 I can assure you that not one Conservative in 100 considers the departure of EMS to be a depressing event. The proportion of Conservatives who share his views on the EU is vanishingly small.
317 - You’re stuggling badly, but do carry on, its funny.
EdP, if you haven’t then I apologise for my mistake.
re: Irish Labour Party and Prionsias De Rossa
The Irish Labour Party is today about as radical as ChristinaD’s granny’s cat. Though it was founded (sorta) by James Conolly. BUT it wasn’t radical enough (to put it mildly) for Jim Larkin!
As for Franky, his past isn’t as much murky as checkered. But will let PBers judge for themselves, on basis of following:
>>> PdR was affiliated with the “Stickies” that is, the Official IRA who began the process of renouncing the gun in favor of socialism; which is why they were opposed by the Provisional IRA. They were called Stickies because one Easter Week after the split, the Provos distributed lilies (traditional symbol of Irish Republicanism) that one pinned to the lapel, whereas the Officials printed up sticker with a picture of a lily).
>>> The Stickies soon went whole hog into electoral politics, and morphed into the Workers Party, which developed strong ties (to put it mildly) with Moscow.
>>> However, this led to another split, when members increasingly un-enamoured with Communism broke ranks to form an new democratic socialist party, Democratic Left. Which BTW became one of the most vocal critics of Sinn Fein.
>>> In the late 1990s (thing that was when) there was a merger between DL and the Irish Labour Party, which were essentially fishing in the same political waters.
Yes, some murkiness. But even though most PBers wouldn’t agree with Franky’s current (let alone former) politics, reckon they’d not be offended by the journey.
Send in Chris Grayling and Labour are flailing!
Sorry, I’m going to have to take a break from this.
314 - As a free agent, I’m entitled to dole out criticism where I choose. Right now, it’s your idiocy that’s getting both barrels.
You can’t seem to make up your mind whether it’s important whether donations come from UK taxpayers (post 267) or not (post 314). Make your mind up - when you find it.
332. Can’t wait to see what the electorate thinks of Cameron’s toaadying to homophobes and anti-semites in the EP just to appease Tory europhobe loonies.
Hopefully the upshot of Samantha Cameron getting involved in the campaign will be greater prominence for Miriam Clegg. Because she’s ace.
333. SO predictable and dull, instead of making a point back, you make a glib remark that you think is witty then ignore any other posts that makes points. Do you ever do anything new?
re 326 — Sorry for that! It’s a selection I made from the list Stars linked to above.
308 Lilly Allen
so if unions look after the workers how come :
- Unite-funded Brown and Balls wrecked the private pension system destroting the retirement prospects of millions of ordinary people
- the number of UK manufacturing jobs have declined by 1.7 million ( more than Thatcher and that was with bigger manufacturing base ! )
- no UK jobs have received the kind of protection comparable to France or Germany
- We have just sold one of our largest manufacturing companies Cadbury with the assistance of a state owned bank
I could go on about offshoring, forced wage cuts, discrimination against british workers, immigration being used to force down wages etc.
But the one thing which is clear, is british unions do nothing to protect british workers jobs.
338. Come in no 31 your time is now…
337. Name the homphobes and anti-semites. You won’t, you’ll just act like anyone asking for informaiton from you is an hysterical tory that won’t see the ‘truth’. Go on, back to tim’s box of tricks with you.
No sign of TNS/BRMB appearing yet?
“Rhisiart” lloks like a “Cornified” version of Richard to me. like Rory to Ruaridh in reverse.
334. “The Irish Labour Party is today about as radical as ChristinaD’s granny’s cat.”
I’d let Christina’s granny’s cat speak for him or herself, SSI. You wouldn’t necessarily judge people by the company they keep, so please extend the same respect to felines.
I speak from experience - my cat was definitely a monetarist.
337
BenM
the electorate neither know nor care.
And if you had an ounce of political nous you would realise that.
(of course I could argue - but will not- the electorate gave their vote on the issue at the last county elections…
337 We shall await their verdict with baited breath.
337 We shall await their verdict with baited breath.
251 Cicero as the Tories expelled MacMillan-Scott over 6 months ago, it was not a defection. He was not a member of a political party when he joined the LibDems.
Interesting to see a group of BA staff has set up to oppose the strike but an indictment of Labour that they feel they have to hide their identities when being interviewed by SKY News for fear of victimisation by people from within UNITE.
337 - I blame Tim for the fact that newer posters think it’s in order to post sh*te like this. You are just polluting the site and doing nothing for anyone.
337 BenM. “332. Can’t wait to see what the electorate thinks of Cameron’s toaadying(Sic) to homophobes and anti-semites in the EP just to appease Tory europhobe loonies.”
My goodness Ben, you must be a lot younger than we all thought!
You obviously were too young to remember the 2005 General Election campaign, when Labour smeared Michael Howard with their Fagin posters.
351. Yep, no insight, no debate, nothing, just a tim-esque rant followed by more of the same.
328. I doubt if we will be able to notice the effect of the actual strike in the polls, as it will come hot on the heels of Darling’s budget unravelling.
The two combined should be worth a few points in the polls to the Conservatives, but it will be difficult to evaluate the effect of each of them individually.
231.
I suspect Sarah Brown is an asset because she seems more normal, ordinary and grounded than her husband.
I suspect Samantha Cameron is not an asset because she seems less normal, ordinary and grounded than her husband (plus has the background to prove it). So I don’t think actively wheeling out Samantha Cameron is a particularly smart idea for the Tories, it may simply reinforce the whole super-rich elite club appearance - but then on recent evidence that is probably exactly what they will do.
On topic. I really do hope the Tories come out swinging against Labour’s links with Unite.
From the feedback I’ve heard on R5 this time and at Christmas, the strikers had very little public support and so the dispute is an open goal re misguided union activity/funding.
I find it astonishing that BA cabin crew can’t accept that reducing the manpower from 15 to 14 per flight is some sort of end-of-the-world scenario. I listened carefully to a cabin crew senior bod intv a couple of weeks ago on R5 and his argument was risible given the plight everyone else is in.
355. How is she seen as less normal, ordinary, or grounded that David exactly?
323 - Charlie Whelan does not run Unison (or UNITE), he has not called anyone out on strike. If the Tories follow your line they will end up making themselves look vry foolish.
351. Ben10 and Lily have been sent from planet sock puppet to bring back tim who has “gone native” with a few sensible posts.
You could argue that its a sinister attempt to devalue PB due to it forensically examining the orthodoxy of the polls.
355. I don’t even know what Samantha Cameron’s voice sounds like. If she’s the daughter of a baronet, presumably she’s not exactly going to sound like the girl next door.
benboy..what are you reading social sciences,meeja studies…crochet for the under twenties..the beano..come on give us a clue.
In the above list, 17 will be in a GOP target or in a toss-up race in November. And 7 are aligned with Stupak.
If Stupak does not go along, the Bill is clearly doomed.
It can also fail if most of the Undecided who are running in a toss-up race this November vote “NO”, and most of the 26 probable “No” do indeed vote to that effect.
Didn’t I hear that Nadine Dorries was pursuing the ’smeargate’ through the courts? Wasn’t Charlie Whelan copied into those emails?
Anyone know?
355 What a load of wishful partisan cobblers
359 - “You could argue that its a sinister attempt to devalue PB due to it forensically examining the orthodoxy of the polls.”
I’m curious why polling companies would want to do that…
356 - I think what BA crew find difficult is that management has torn up their terms and conditions without any consultation and without any willingness to make compromises. It’s almost as if Willie Walsh has gone looking for this fight.
360 JK
I doubt she has a scottish accent.
360 Mr Kelly - what like Hilary Benn
219, SeanT - thank you muchly for sharing that!
Clearly Cornish language revival is as important for MK as the Gaelic League was for Irish nationalism. THough remains to be seen IF it will be as politically significant!
Could you give an English translation for some of the names you cite? For example, am I correct in guessing that “Rhisiart Tal-e-bot” may be better known as “Richard Talbot”?
365. Who mentioned polling companies ?
364. Yep, basically ‘Samantha Cameron’s not an asset cos I say so’
301 tim, due a shift change I think, that is embarrassing cr*p.
Sarah Brown has been rightfully critiqued as regards her activities, as will Sam Cameron when she does.
Sarah decided to play an active role in party politics, twittering, giving PR releases and offering photo ops on her charitable work (and with her sons in the Downing St garden), taking a large role in by election campaigns. As such she chose to be a public person, and subject to praise or criticism, a prop to her husband’s ambitions. IIRC one of the delightful banners at the 2007 Labour Conference was included “Gordon & Sarah”. She’s a tough business woman, and doubtless will return to PR with a much improved book of contacts after her husband leaves office.
367. “I doubt she has a scottish accent.”
Ah, but neither do most Scottish aristocrats! Sir Alec Douglas-Home was Scottish.
341 - Thanks for showing us all that Labour is not in the pockets of any union. As you quite correctly say no union-dominated government would have doen those things. In the same way, a union-dominated government would have repealed Tory legislation relating to unions and strikes.
That ends the argument, doesn’t it?
346, JK - good point! BUT in my experience, cats tend to be quite conservative . . . like your Milton J. Feline!
366. Why don’t they all apply for jobs at Virgin then ? Oh yes now I remember they would have to take a 50% pay cut.
371…any chance of a moderation in language ? c+#t would have sufficed
373 JK
James, I was referring to the “girl next door” statement, are your next door neighbours aristocrats ?
330 - Lilly - not often I agree with you, but I will do there. I can criticise Gordon Brown for many things but having an ugly wife isn’t one of them.
I really don’t get the criticism of Sarah Brown as a person. We can question the extent to which political spouses should be in the spotlight; but she wants her husband to succeed - what wife wouldn’t? (Apart from John Bercow’s.)
378..Alan - they probably live in the shooting lodge on the Estate
Whelan was a recipient of invented filth about women. According to Brown no one drew this to his attention. He was after all their boss.
Now could one of the pro-Labour writers on here explain why he is a fit person to be advising the Prime Minister?
327, Mr. Kelly, I am unworthy of praise regarding creativity. Save your plaudits for the Budget growth forecasts on the 24th
381 I wonder what Guido still has up his sleeve since he has what appears to be a very big heap of emails from Dolly’s inbox.
378. Well, fair enough. Having an aristocratic accent and having a Scottish accent as such probably are mutually exclusive concepts. There are of course posh accents that are genuinely Scottish (eg. Michael Forsyth) but they fall well short of the aristocratic.
341 SO
actually it doesn’t; it just starts it. To me there are 2 questions:
- what the hell are UK unions doing -it’s certainly not representing their members interest.
- why is no-one on the left questioning just how bad this government has been for british workers. They haven’t just let workers down, they’ve screwed them. Several times over. With a vegetable marrow. With spikes in it.
what it does do is part explain the rise of the BNP.
Funny old electoral system these MEPs are elected on. Macmillan-Scott was elected purely because of his place on the Conservative list. He falls out with his party and can join whoever he wishes at no cost to himself. However, if he resigns or the grim reaper calls upon him, then he will be replaced by another Conservative without any election. And this is supposed to be democracy.
384. Rory Stewart sounds reasonably aristocratic and Scottish.
283 - “Grayling: humiliated Johnson over crime stats”
Err, would that be the Grayling who was humiliatingly slapped down by the stats experts who very publicly said he could not use the recorded crime figures in the way he was because you couldn’t directly compare the absolute recorded crime figure before and after the major changes in the recording methods introduced between 1999 and 2002. Grayling’s intervention was a real low point for the mis-representation of data for specifically political ends.
As there were changes in the counting methods the key thing you can do is look at trends before the changes (during which recorded crime declined year on year from a peak in 1992 until 1999) and then after the changes were fully implemented (during which recorded crime declined year on year from 2003 until 2009).
Alternatively you can look at the British Crime Survey for trends, which has been running with broadly consistent methodologies since 1981. This shows a consistent rise from 1981 to 1995, when the number of incidents peaked - then the number of incidents reduces consistently thereafter.
322- The Hispanic caucus dissenters are not included in this list, but may end up voting no.
This talk of political spouses makes me regret the political demise of Sir Menzies. Say what you like about him (and there isn’t much to say really), but the redoubtable Lady Elspeth would have wiped the floor with these saps.
387. “Rory Stewart sounds reasonably aristocratic and Scottish.”
Sadly (?) I missed that Question Time so I can’t comment!
366 SO - I think you would find that BA cabin crew contractual conditions did not include the number of staff on the plane (which should be a management decision based on safety and level of service) and that the special allowances were entirely at the management’s discretion.
387 AndrewG - I find spotting ‘aristrocratic Scottish’ or ‘posh Scots’ accents hard work.
I wouldn’t put Rory down as a Scot or Gove - they sound educated and erudite, I’d never associate either with being Scots per se.
Perception is a strange beast.
Sea Shanty. I suspect you are right, and Rhisiart Tal-e-bot is an absurd Kernowisation of… Richard Talbot.
Which just makes it all the more delish.
Has any other major figure in a British political party got a more ridiculous name? I’m not counting Africans - Rastus Banana etc etc - bless them, but those names are probably sensible in Gambia or wherever.
I like to think Rhisiart Tal-e-bot, in having the stupidest name in British politics, represents another triumph for my homeland.
Mebyon Kernow also boast probably the handsomest council leader in British politics, like a younger Richard Gere, or a more brooding Brad Pitt - he’s on the right in this photo.
http://www.mebyonkernow.org/files/ccgroup.JPG
385 - I think you’ll find there are a lot of people on the left who question this government’s record on many things. I know that I do.
393. “they sound educated and erudite, I’d never associate either with being Scots per se.”
Same old ‘Libertarians’…
393. “they sound educated and erudite, I’d never associate either with being Scots per se.”
You may want to rephrase that!
396 What a stupid comment Mr Kelly - and your point is what?
re 359. Can I say that I am totally satisfied that Tim is not part of any organised operation. He is a loner with strong views, a gambler and a tough debater.
394 - That is one of the most stunning photos I have ever seen. Three finer looking blokes you could not find. What charmers they are.
301, 309
To all women out there, would you please REFRAIN FROM POSTING on this site. You think it’s clever and funny, but what about your husbands’ tea, what about your darning pile, and what about the fact that tim and “James Kelly” just don’t like it?
399..Mike you must be kidding…give me a break..
399, so, he could be part of a disorganised operation
394 Crikey - they are lookers!
359 Maybe I’ve missed something but the forensic examination seems to be in short supply, more like partisan vitriol. Some really nasty misogynistic stuff at times and personal nasty comments about disabled individuals. UGH!
395 SO
yes SO I do know that and most bloggers on here respect that. You are one of the few leftwing bloggers on PB who will give an honest assessment based on your own views. I regret that people like Hopi Sen didn’t hang around long enough to give a few non-troll views instead of the bilge we have been treated to recently.
399 - Quite amazing that some people seem to need reassuring about that!
394 — I clicked on the picture, ready to admire a ravishing cornish specimen of manhood, but pouah!, I’ve got a bad taste in my throat now.
364 ‘What a load of wishful partisan cobblers’
Classic insightful comment Plato - nice one.
Actually this isn’t partisan. I would say exactly the same about Cherie Blair - she wasn’t an asset to Tony, because she just seemed kind of weird by comparison to Tony’s normal bloke appeal.
Whether you like it or not, there is a clear narrative about Cameron that he is a super rich posh bloke and ‘not like the rest of us’ (and that isn’t very helpful to the Tories). Why on earth would you want to further that view by focussing on his wife who is even posher than him - it just reinforces that view.
388: ‘Grayling’s intervention was a real low point for the mis-representation of data for specifically political ends.’
I know there are more pressing concerns in higher education these days Prof, so you probably missed it, but Grayling subsequently commissioned research by the House of Commons statisticians and was vindicated. Do try to keep up!
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hb3l7wZ4FU23B6s0Py8-wV3mZUww
“Tedious waffle.”
But I note not ‘factually inaccurate’.
by James Kelly March 12th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
And inaccurate. Yes indeed.
The change was flagged in the manifesto in Cameron’s introduction:
Three years ago, with the Leader of the Czech Civic Democrats, I announced that Conservative MEPs would form a new centre-right, non- federalist group in the European Parliament directly after the 2009 election. We will implement that pledge after these elections.
So please do try a little harder.
404. lol. I’m feeling guilty now. Mebyon Kernow actually do a lot of good for Cornwall, I hope they give Labour and the LDs a much deserved kicking at the GE.
Vote MK! Kernow bys Vyken!
And now I am off for an exciting walk to Marks and Sparks.
399. Tim doesn’t debate, he makes a series of aggressive statements that are either blatently false or incredibly bias, then ignores any attempt to talk about the facts by either going suddenly very quiet or regularly changing the subject onto other matters.
Post 29 on previous thread, Gadfly, on the subject of the total percentage adjustments from Conservative to Labour that YouGov has been making in 11 consecutive polls.
Although a subset suggested that the adjustment was increasing with time, this fuller set of data are more erratic.
One poll has an adjustment of less than 10% (actually 3.35%)
Five lie in the range 10-20%
Five are above 20% (max value 37.77%)
So there’s ~50% chance that the adjustment to one of these polls will exceed 20%. And the size of the adjustment can vary by a factor of up to 10.
It’s worrying that there doesn’t appear to be systematic adjustment here. As I understand it, YouGov claims to be suffering mainly from a lack of responses from those with Labour IDs. If this were the case, surely the adjustments would be approximately the same.
My guess is that when we hear Sam Cam speak she will sound very much like Gwyneth Paltrow doing her English accent.
She’ll defintely be an asset to the Tories unless she starts getting overtly political. That’s where Cherie Blair went wrong.
398. “What a stupid comment Mr Kelly - and your point is what?”
Well, since you asked, it was a rather more polite way than you managed of saying “what a stupid comment, Ms Plato”. If I had displayed such naked prejudice against the English I would never have heard the end of it.
409. How do you know she’s posher than him exactly? Have you ever heard her speak? Ever read an interview with her? Your basing your impression of her on your own assumptions rather than any evidenc,e rmeinds me of someone else who posts here.
411. “So please do try a little harder.”
I think you’ll have to try a little harder, Witan - that quote tends to corroborate what I said, rather than disprove it.
416. In fairness, I think it was a syntactical error on Plato’s part, rather than a deliberate insult, James.
410.
Not really - why on earth would you choose stats produced in an entirely partisan fashion that the Tories refuse to publish - note even your own links states ‘The party - which declined to publish the research’ - over reputable statistics producing by an independent body year on year and widely respected throughout the world.
Answer - you wouldn’t. Back to the drawing board Stark Dawning.
416 - a fascinating insight into the psyche of the professional victim. I simply read it as Plato saying the two individuals concerned merely sounded educaated rather than particularly Scottish.
410 Not vindicated as he has not supplied stats to support his claim.Grayling still at fault mode.
421. As did I, without the selective quoting I notice went on with the ‘professional victims’.
401. “To all women out there, would you please REFRAIN FROM POSTING on this site. You think it’s clever and funny, but what about your husbands’ tea, what about your darning pile, and what about the fact that tim and “James Kelly” just don’t like it?”
Constan, leaving aside your moronic implication of sexism (what is it about Plato’s anatomy that’s supposed to entitle her to a free run?) I’d be fascinated to know precisely why you’re so convinced James Kelly isn’t my real name. I used to post as ‘Red Meteor’, so it would be a bit odd to switch to such a dull pseudonym.
Angus Reid poll credited with causing sterling f/x bounce:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100312/tuk-uk-britain-election-poll-fa6b408.html
Thought you all might be amused at the extended sphere of influence politicalbetting.com wields these days…
423 - my typo isn’t intended as a racial insult either btw
“‘Samantha Cameron’s not an asset cos I say so’”
But she’d make a far better Prime Minister than her cloakroom attendant husband
421. “a fascinating insight into the psyche of the professional victim. I simply read it as Plato saying the two individuals concerned merely sounded educaated rather than particularly Scottish.”
Superb! Absolutely superb…
Hmm. Just glancing over the Bahrain markets. Bit tricky trying to find value. I do have a few thoughts regarding racing, qualifying may be harder. Last practice session (8-9am) should hopefully offer more information.
413
Has tim answered grendel’s question yet? I think its been met with silence on at least a dozen occasions.
416 Oh do give your persecution complex a rest
My point was that I *didn’t* hear a Scottish voice when I listened to them - I heard an educated and erudite person talking so there was no predjudice or preconceived view either way.
428. I see you are on repeat too, can’t think of anything new to say?
424 Red Meteor…aaaagghh…those were the days. I take it the operation was a success then. Well done..
With the tv debates underway, which party has the best performers?
PM
Brown v Cameron v Clegg = Cameron (brown damaged goods)
FOREIGN SEC
Milliband v Hague v Davey = Hague (milliband vastly overrated)
HOME SEC
Johnson v Grayling v Huhne = Johnson (all 3 lack charisma)
CHANCELLOR
Darling v Osborne v Cable = Cable (media darling)
HEALTH
Burnham v Lansley v Lamb = Draw (matches home secdebate for weak spokesmen)
EDUCATION
Balls v Gove v Laws = Gove (though Laws did well in Newsnight debate)
TRADE
Mandelson v Clarke v Thorso = Clarke (but mouthwatering match up with Mandy)
DEFENCE
Ainsworth v Fox v Harvey = Fox (easy win)
Out of 8 matchups Cons win 5 Lab win 1 LibDem 1 Draw 1
430. tim doesn’t answer questions, which is why my debate point comes in. He makes good attacking points, but like Brown can’t do anything else besides insult his opponants/ignore them completely/dissapear.
420: ‘Back to the drawing board Stark Dawning.’
Off to the drawing room actually - the east one, so will get back to you later. Bit of a shindig to thank the beaters for their good work throughout the season. Toodle pip!
432. “Oh do give your persecution complex a rest
“
This from a woman who instantly jumped on a bit of gentle ribbing by saying “what a stupid comment, Mr Kelly. And your point is what?”. You seem to be extraordinarily touchy about your “non-Toryness” every time the issue is raised - I’ve no idea why, but that’s something you’ll have to deal with yourself.
“My point was that I *didn’t* hear a Scottish voice when I listened to them - I heard an educated and erudite person talking”
Ms. Plato, have you ever heard that well-known expression - when you’re in a hole, stop digging?
On topic: The best way to handle this is to get into the local media asking your Labour opponent (esp if funded by a Union) to condemn this and other strike action when so many have lost their job etc. Keep pushing the issue and embarrass the MPs. Pinning it on Brown isn’t going to work. Secondly you have to drag Whelan out of the background constantly, mention him working on Labour’s reelection. So yes, it could be dangerous for Labour as long as it is played right.
Off topic: If anyone knows of any reasonable office admin/marketing type opportunities in South/Central London on a temp or permanent basis. I have literally run out of money to pay the mortgage and things are getting somewhat close to the edge.
Consistently high blood pressure not so bad after all !!! It’s variable bp that’s the problem. I going in next week to sneer at my doctor.
Sam Cam posh - I thought she was from Scunthorpe? Mind you, that’s posh for some people I suppose.
434, Clarke Vs Mandelson’s the pick, as you suggest.
Most will be tedious. Should be entertaining watching Hague bitchslap Milipede for an hour or so.
The best well-spoken Scottish voice competition has been won by Sir Malcolm Rifkind for the last ten years running. Which reminds me, has Nuala been in recently?
435 - but at least tim is not a crashing bore - he can be very amusing at times. I find it his saving grace. It’s like keeping a badly-behaved but harmless pet.
Just seen Nick Griffin on BBC News. Has anyone noticed his new Adolph haircut? Seriously weird but I guess pretty fetching if you’re a Nazi.
437. I read plato’s post one way, you the other, yet your way is the correct one and is backed up with such amazing condescension.
Just listening to Mr Griffin and he’s using the judgement as another PR fillip - what on Earth are the PC brigade thinking of?? It’s pushing voters into his arms on every news bulletin.
And the LDs recruit a pron film director.
Is this is craziest GE ever?
All we need now is Ms Mussolini to enter the fray!
431.Please stay away from Mr Kelly’s hole, and dig no more. Chivalry is dead in North Britain, Plato.
437 Here - have the last word, we know you love it
434 - Laws is good I think. He plays the reasonable, sensible moderate centrist without sounding high and mighty or weak or full of flim-flam. It works well and if the LibDems have any sense they will get him on the TV as much as possible.
My guess is that when we hear Sam Cam speak she will sound very much like Gwyneth Paltrow doing her English accent.
Mrs Mad and I heard Samantha Cameron on radio.. A very strange accent. Definitely not Scots.. More mannish than anything..or so I imagined…
I did not find it attractive as a man… Mrs Mad was surprised at the voice..
lucymanning
Exclusive clips of first Samantha Cameron interview on ITV News @1830.She talks marriage,his annoying habits,how life would change if he won
447
You have been named and shamed on his blog - that is an honour that eludes me [so far] 
434. chris_g00 ‘Out of 8 matchups Cons win 5 Lab win 1 LibDem 1 Draw 1′
How refreshing to get such an unbiased opinion on here from a Tory.
448. “Here - have the last word, we know you love it
“
Who’s the ‘we’ in this particular instance - you, Chris g00, and Cuddles? There will be some compensations to missing out on an invite to that particular gathering…
440
Sam Cam posh - I thought she was from Scunthorpe? Mind you, that’s posh for some people I suppose.
Born
1971, the daughter of Sir Reginald Sheffield, 8th baronet, and the now Viscountess Astor. She is said to be the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great-granddaughter of Nell Gwyn, the mistress of Charles II
Education
Marlborough college, Bristol Polytechnic, BA in fine art
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/sep/28/conservatives.politics
452.He has a blog? That is a must read. As soon as the SNP hold that referendum, I’ll be on his blog. Is there a video on there of him singing ‘I want to break free’, or is that some malicious rumour?
102 TC
So a decent kind of person leaves the Tories. The number of those who will not bait immigrants, not bash unions or not call for the re-introduction of fox-hunting or the death penalty seem to be growing fewer. How sad.
And all this happening with a witless a government lead by a total crazy; such a shame for the British people that the official opposition party has Cameron as its leader.
In the third paragraph of McMillan Scott’s letter of resignation from the Tory Party we read:
“My family, friends and those who work with me will all confirm that I have sought in good faith an amicable resolution of my dispute at all levels in the party. I have written to you on several occasions without a reply and have pursued the appeal process to which you submitted me in the diminishing expectation of fairness. I have stated my case modestly in the media. Last weekend your lawyers made clear that the appeal would continue to be rigged by you, despite your public pretensions to decency and fairness. As my friend Henry Porter put it in the Observer, your response has been “thuggish and panicky”. You say one thing in public and do another in private.”
452. ”
You have been named and shamed on his blog - that is an honour that eludes me [so far] 
“
You obviously haven’t been looking hard enough, Plato. You were there long before Chris…
Blimey!!!!
Just turned on TVCatchup to see ITV 1 and the advert was from Unison about job cuts in the public sector
US style attacks ads are here.
452. Nealy as unbias as you.
454. yes, we’d be able to caryr on a conversation without you getting hysterically offended every few minutes.
John Marston @ 414
I wasn’t trying to suggest that the adjustments were increasing. The data for yesterdays poll shows a lower adjustment of +11.29%
It is the fact that the adjustments vary so much that I find curious. The sample sizes, and don’t knows/won’t says, do not vary significantly from poll to poll
437. “James Kelly” -
“This from a woman …”
Exactly.
461. “yes, we’d be able to caryr on a conversation without you getting hysterically offended every few minutes.”
If that sort of thing is likely to pose a problem, please, please try not to refer to Plato as a Tory, simply because she’s going to vote for them and agrees with them in every particular. How many times does she have to tell you - SHE VOTED FOR TONY!!!
458 Oh how sad - person on hte interweb doesn’t like what other interweb person says and creates a blog post all about it??
Good grief
459 - Is this it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGeZ6Z9hTcE
464 - Plato is a Daily Mail Libertarian.
Hence the confusion.
465. “Oh how sad - person on hte interweb doesn’t like what other interweb person says and creates a blog post all about it??
Good grief
“
I think what may be slightly more sad is saying the exact same thing for a seventeenth time, but pretending it’s only just occurred to you.
PS. I raise you a
:roll:
Malcolm March 12th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
A decent person is not one who says “yes I agree to stand on a Conservative platform that specifically requires us to leave the EPP-ED” and then a few weeks after getting elected on the slate says “I do not agree with leaving the EPP-ED”.
But the Lib dems are welcome to him.
SamCam clips to be shown on ITV news starting now.
286
‘Union funding is not in the same universe of scandal as the Ashcroft affair is.’
Spot on, Union funding is far worse since its recycled taxpayers money,paid by this government under the guise of the ridiculous Union modernisation fund,which is then paid back by the Unions to fund the Labour party.
The funding paid by the government to the unions is almost exactly the same that Labour receives back from the unions for political funding.
467. Oh look tim’s back, maybe he’ll answer some quesitons!
Re Sam Cameron - Scunthorpe connection.
From Wikipedia,
Sheffield grew up on the 300-acre (1.2 km2) estate of Normanby Hall, five miles (8 km) north of Scunthorpe in North Lincolnshire. Her family also owns a large Yorkshire estate called Sutton Park.
468 Mr Kelly - I’m sure readers of PB will make their own judgement
Can you resist having the last word?
465.I think the dour Mr Kelly and the timbot have a problem with you because they have never supported a succesful female leader of their own parties. No wonder one supports a bully, while the other believes it is insignificant that a man in authority should abuse his position to physically manhandle his female juniors…or ‘underlings’ as he described them.
re 473. That’s right - Sam was brought up on a estate on the outskirts of Scunthorpe in a house that is now owned by the council.
472 tim is too important to answer questions.
467..Hello second shift Tim….the only thing confused is you….but we are used to it now, please dont change
Mike,
As AR are members of the BPC, why are they not being reported in the media tv stations?
I would think you could have a word with some of your contacts!
474. “Can you resist having the last word?”
I dunno - can you? After all, you offered me the last word about twenty minutes ago, but thus far you indisputably still seem to be speaking - and gallantry forbids me from saying whether your level of erudition in doing so precludes the possibility of you having a Scottish accent.
475. Fear not, Chris - I suspect it won’t be too long before I’m an enthusiastic supporter of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.
399 Mike. Re Tim - how can you define somebody as a “tough debater”, who never, ever debates anything at all?
337
‘Can’t wait to see what the electorate thinks of Cameron’s toaadying to homophobes and anti-semites in the EP just to appease Tory europhobe loonies.’
Did you miss last years EU elections?
Labour polled 18%
480 Aah haddaway and shite, man.
462
It is the fact that the adjustments vary so much that I find curious. The sample sizes, and don’t knows/won’t says, do not vary significantly from poll to poll
by Gadfly March 12th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Easy. You know the answer you want, the polling is given.. so choose your adjustment.
Once you are on a treadmill - in my opinion - which makes no sense,, you can’t get off. without an awful lot of egg..
Simples
483. More like 16%!
“Yes after he signed up to and fought an election campaign on a manifesto which included setting up a new grouping in the EuroParliament.”
But that was (I think) well before the membership of the ECR group was announced.
by James Kelly March 12th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
The change was flagged in the manifesto in Cameron’s introduction:
Three years ago, with the Leader of the Czech Civic Democrats, I announced that Conservative MEPs would form a new centre-right, non- federalist group in the European Parliament directly after the 2009 election. We will implement that pledge after these elections.
So please do try a little harder.
by Witan March 12th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
that quote tends to corroborate what I said, rather than disprove it.
by James Kelly March 12th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Kelly: deluded or simply daft?
I like the idea of debates between all the leading spokesmen (women?). Personally I expect Cable, Huhne and Laws to romp home fairly comfortably.
488.Chris Huhne, romping, thanks for that image.
488 I assume you are a LibDem voter?
This is the first time I’ve watched ITV News for a few years. Is it always so bloody lachrymose? I’d quite like some proper news.
“[tim] is a loner with strong views, a gambler and a tough debater.”
399: Mike Smithson @ 17:50
I think Mr. Smithson must have a had a long lunch and is now somewhat “tired and emotional”.
tim-o-thicket have no fear, no-one here will show any disrespect for Mrs Brown on the election trail. Magda is close to our hearts.
488. expect Cable, Huhne and Laws to romp home fairly comfortably.
Let’s hope they are as coherent and concise as their glorious leader…
I hope there is a coherence now between the yin and yang of credibility and aspiration, realism and idealism, discipline and hope.
I think we were very, very quick off the mark in realising very quickly that this election was going to be fought in a completely different context, different public mood, and where this balance between credibility and generosity or sterility and aspiration, particularly for a party that in a sense – because we hadn’t been in government for so long – the credibility slope is steeper for us.
I think the big difference in this election from any election over the past 15 years, certainly, is I don’t think you can get a ticket to the game in the first place unless you first show credibility and a down payment.
On the deficit stuff, I suppose I am part of a generation of Liberal Democrats … who don’t just want to build castles in the air but do want to give people a sense that, yes, there is something aspirationally different to the old duopoly which we are seeking to replace, but it could work, otherwise you don’t get lift off.
I am actually impeccably temporal on the whole criminal justice stuff; politics is very much the art of emphasis, it is very much about the words you use, the adjectives and the adverbs you use.
I am not wedded at all to the kind of Pugin convention of Westminster. I have got a very strong instinct that we can do a hell of a lot better, and I hope that comes out in the wash.
The general election campaign will be an important denouement in all of that. I really think it is too early to tell exactly how the chips are going to fall.
I think there’s already a crescendo of expectation, but actually … It is not a flash of white suddenly.
It seems to me I actually think what is going to happen – and I almost welcome this – as the markets and others start to worry, is the more they think about it, the more what people are now worried about will actually be a source of reassurance.
I have never been foolish enough to try and rule great things in or out, other than rule one thing in, which is that I am not going to put the cart before the horse, and I will wait to see what people say in response to the pitch we are making. We are still in the foothills of making that pitch. That will come to a crescendo in the general election campaign. Once we then know how the cookie crumbles as far as the vote is concerned, then we deal with that.
http://johnrentoul.independentminds.livejournal.com/312375.html
491 I can’t remember the last time I watched it - must be 10 yrs ago at least - it’s like Trisha News.
487 - I announced that Conservative MEPs would form a new centre-right, non- federalist group
But it ended up as a right-far right group with allies who were pro Lisbon and pro CAP.
re tim. I’ve given my verdict on him before and I’ll leave it there.
490. I am indeed. Although Laws wasn’t as impressive on Newsnight as I’d hoped. Still it is difficult to have a good debate with Ed Balls in the building.
Tim a tough debater?
More like a mass debater!
496 Got any views on Unite funding Labour Tim..
Please no more brown and labour i beg of you
pls pls
I been job hunting for so long the last job was the 176th with no interview………………….600 APPLIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pls go pls
Oh Christ. Samantha Cameron sounds exactly like a girl I know.
SamCam sounds really normal.
494 - That has to be made up, surely?
494
Scott
Incredible. Was he drinking when he wrote that rubbish?
If so, I’d like to know what it is..
Balls has a rival for neo andoigyenous rubbish…
Samantha is a bit sexy, isn’t she? Lovely skin.
Was it the Sam Cam interview or Sarah Brown?
SamCam is a bit of alright. Good choice Dave.
502
Sam Cam. Very nice lady, DC is one lucky guy.
Oh no. Poor History Boy.
‘As this thread isn’t about anything in particular perhaps I may be allowed to mention cricket?
It seems unlikely that either captain, on the first morning of a test series, in fine weather, contemplating a good pitch with a history of taking spin in later stages, would seriously consider inserting the opposition. Yet there’s a curious little market on Betfair that values these options more or less equally:
Bangladesh v England - 1st Test - Toss Combination
IMHO there’s a quick 11% to be made backing both sides to win the toss and bat and I’ve left a few quid on the table for anyone who agrees with me. I may, of course, be eating humble pie for breakfast, because, as everyone knows, “It’s a funny game, cricket”.
by History Boy March 11th, 2010 at 7:51 pm’
Bangladesh won the toss and decided to field.
A long-standing invitation to Gordon Brown to appear on the BBC’s Match of the Day 2 as a football pundit was withdrawn this week as it was felt, with an election imminent, it would breach the corporation’s rules on impartiality.
I wonder if Tim would like to stand in for him?
509. Would that suggest they are playing for a draw?
510. John S
There is a better option….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/jimwhite/7430528/General-Election-2010-So-what-did-Portsmouth-win-under-the-Tories-.html
Interesting video by Ben Page of MORI: have we ever trusted our politicians?
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/newsevents/videos/video.aspx?oItemId=445
Bleh. The media should be stating that the wives have sod all to do with the election, not fuelling the political role of unelected, unaccountable people who happen to be married to the party leaders.
On an unrelated note, Sam Cam is totty.
510. It’s a pity. I’d hoped he’d come on and predict Liverpool won’t qualify for the Champions League.
514 - She’s spoken for though.
Brace yourselves for Sally, Christina et al launching their vicious attacks on SamCam.
Sounds very much like a whole generation of posh party girls to me, but my wife looks like Miriam Clegg so I’m more than happy.
517. Just watch you don’t over-inflate her!
517, this point has been addressed, tim, you naughty little tinker.
Cameron has always said people have a right to know about the person they’re electing as PM, hence his openness about his present personal life.
Brown accused Cameron of using his family as props and then proceeded to hypocritically do just that.
Do stop being silly, old bean.
518, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm6ym5e02KA
Is there some sort of leader’s wives mud wrestling thing arranged on the red button during the debates?
If not, meh, bring back Norma
519 I thought Sam Cam sounded really ordinary - if she was a voxpop I’d never have noticed.
The thing that struck me was her calling him Dave. My ex was called David and I really disliked ‘Dave’ which is why I noticed it.
I’m just old fashioned
517. Not quite sure what you mean there. However I wonder how Michael Portillo’s comments on TW last night will have gone down with his former blue-rinse devotees? Doubt they’ll be impressed.
Tim.Thoughts.Labour.Funding.Unity.None?.. Why am I not surprised..
469 TC
Short memory TC - from November 2007.
“A Liberal Democrat MEP has defected to the Conservatives, saying the Lib Dems had “lost their way”.
Sajjad Karim, MEP for the North West of England, said he had been impressed by David Cameron’s speech on immigration.”
Sajjad Karim having defected to the Tories was re-elected to the Parliament in 2008. So we don’t have to go all the back to Winston Churchill, do we?
Fancy objecting to sitting in a group with homophobes, racists and supporters of the Waffen SS. Where does that put those Tory MEPs who are comfortable in bed with such right wing extremists?
Whilst the damage to the Tories will not be great it just gives more ammunition to their opponents. Fancy offering up hostages to fortune to the appalling NuLabour gang. Don’t you Tories get it?
Despite this God-awful government 60% of the population refuse to vote for the party best placed to oust them.
it appears that Obamacare will be voted within 10 days.
Cant link, being on a mobile
Any polls due tonight?
Apologies if already posted Ipsos/MORI’s Ben Page on Hardtalk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00r9q9g/HARDtalk_Ben_Page_Chief_Executive_Ipsos_MORI/
@491:
That was pretty highbrow by ITV News standards.
TIM
UNITE FUNDING OF LABOUR?
Your thoughts on a postcard please?
How’s the bedsit? You still getting stuck between your filing cabinet and the wall!
Good Evening PBers.
Will we see a leaders’ wives debate?
I have seen very little of Miriam. Given that her family is Spanish, can she vote in the GE?
I suspect this story was supposed to be a big government announcement on its own next week as part of the government’s daily strategy GE campaign grid, but its been brought forward to deflect this story from getting some legs and running.
by ChristinaD March 12th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
No one has mentioned Baroness Udin either so a double bonus.
531. Good evening. You know for a while I believed you might be Michael Foot. Obviously not!
529. This is why I’m not one for moaning about t’Beeb.
527.
Dont think we are having any trips into wonderland at 10 tonight!
536, I know we don’t have a YouGov (hurrah) but there are 10 pollsters so there’s a reasonable chance there might be one from someone else.
529. We’re in for some treats tonight on ITV. The news at 10 in between a double bill of Death Wish Winner.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED: 25 minute interview on political polling with Ben Page from MORI… a lot of it very familiar, but still very informative.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00r9q9g/HARDtalk_Ben_Page_Chief_Executive_Ipsos_MORI/
Dear tim - you may rely on the British Crime Survey (in the same way that The Lancet relied on an opinion poll for working out the dead in Iraq) but the adjusted figures show that violent crime has increased.
Given the comments on this blog alone about the veracity of opinion polls it would be a brave man who relied in the BCS.
Howdy, Jack!
484 JOHN LILBURNE
Are you the John Lilburne born in North Shields who founded the Levellers? I thought you were dead! How did you get on with Cromwell? Canny lad, was he?
Annyhoo, gan canny, hinny, aa knaa wot ya taalking aboot.
Tories to win Tynemouth,John? Hope so!
Labour voter SamCam comes across well, but has she been de-poshed by Central Office? Sounds like someone who might run an accounts dept in Enfield (nowt wrong with that) rather than the blue blooded daughter of a baronet.
Rachel Johnson a bit harsh on Newsnight. What is it that the Johnsons have against the Camerons?
“But don’t count on it - for one thing that Cameron’s party seems to be lacking is a ruthless streak. Unlike Labour there’s an apparent reluctance to put the boot in even when there’s a golden opportunity.”
Are you actively campaigning/strategising for the Tories now Mike? Join me in the Hung Parliament Party instead. Anyone would think you had money on Dave…
testing
SamCam comes across really well - attractive lady with perfectly normal speaking voice - and no I don’t think she’s been in any way “deposhed” by anyone. In fact it is normally the upper-middles rather than genuine upper class that like to sound as if they are holding a bag of marbles between their teeth!
Frankly, I don’t think the Leaders’ Wives will have a huge impact on the Campaign itself - and that is as it should be - but all in all, Samantha is an asset.