The Tory lead moves to 13 points with the tracker
October 5th, 2009
CON 40% (-1) LAB 27% (-2) LD 20%(+3)
And the Lib Dems continue to poll well
I assume that this is based on fieldwork that was carried out last night and first thing this morning.
To a question of who people thought would perform best in the TV debate the split was: Cameron 49%; Brown 12%; Clegg 15%.
So the Tories will be quite pleased that their lead has increased while the Lib Dem will be delighted that once again they are making progress.
Mike Smithson
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Labour are doomed, I expect that if the LD’s are sensible they will improve as Labour declines.
FPT: 576, bit of a nothing poll. Noise, methinks. Should see more substantial shifts as the conference goes on.
First?
The most interesting thing about the tracker is to see how much it bobbles about. The Lib Dem score in particular is quite variable. It makes me realise just how careful we should be about snapshots in polls.
Labour Conference not so bouncy-bouncy then?
Hur-hur de hurr hurr
2 - You would think.
Nothing to see here.
Pretty much a poll version of the conference season in general.
FPT, 570. “The Scottish Parliament and the National Assembly have got shag all to do with Westminster.”
I think someone mentioned ’straw man’ arguments earlier, and that is certainly one. No one has been making the claim you imply they have.
I’d also be keen to pin down what you mean by “there should be at least one four-way Scottish debate”. Some people seem to mean by that a mickey mouse debate featuring Jim Murphy/Iain Gray, Annabel Goldie/David Mundell, and Michael Moore/Tavish Scott. Is that what you had in mind? If so, I can assure you it would have happened anyway, those sort of ‘leader’s debates’ have been taking place in Scotland since the year dot, and no, it’s not an answer to the questions of fairness the SNP are raising here. Not even a tenth of an answer.
Oh well, the “CameronToriesSplitGate” was a bit of a damp squib then?
Civil Wars ain’t what they used to be.
4 - ACtually if you look at the graph it is easier to see that the Conservative and other scores are relatively stable in a narrow band. It is the Labour/Lib Dem figures that are bouncing around more.
10 Which is why the LD’s should attack Labour.
YouGov Monday - Scotland split
(+/- change from UK GE 2005)
Oth 36% (+?)
Lab 34% (-5)
Con 18% (+2)
LD 12% (-11)
http://www.yougov.co.uk/extranets/ygarchives/content/pdf/Monday_05.pdf
1.
Labour are doomed, DOOMED at the next election!
Gordon Brown = Neil Kinnock!
11, that would make strategic sense. But Clegg lacks the brains or the stomach to do it.
Looks like a “calm before the Tory conference storm” poll. The Friday poll, and beyond, will be the interesting ones. From this starting position, it will be a Tory disappointment if they can’t at least touch the upper 40’s.
re 12. Funny that given that the big marginals poll had the Lib Dems increasing their seats in Scotland.
FPT malcolmg
I have a problem.
A few months back my brother was entertaining friends at his local racecourse and took to ringing me on his mobile before each race so that I could relay malcolmg’s latest tips. Thanks to malcolmg the week was profitable for all.
He became a gilded hero. Adding to the family investment pots that will trickle down to future generations unimpeded by IHT.
Then came the Megrahi fiasco. The gilt rubbed off revealing the naked brass beneath.
Listen to your inner voices malcolm and you will find peace and profit.
An eternally grateful deluded Tory.
James, I’m sure that your parish council is all very fascinating North of the border and you believe that we are all out to get you South of the border. However, the sad truth for you is that we genuinely do not care about Scotland with regards to its place in a Westminster election. It will have virtually zero impact on who forms the next UK government. You may not like that, but that is the bottom line.
Personally I hope you get your hearts desire of independence, it will be the removal of another millstone from our necks.
10 James - Yes, that seems to have been the case for a while. It looks like fairly random movement between the LibDems and Labour. It’s difficult to believe that there is any such movement in reality over such a short timescale and in the absence of any big news to explain it, so I think it must either be random noise, or caused by something in the methodology.
YouGov - Monday
‘Leaving the EU altogether’
Midlands/Wales 50%
Rest of South 46%
London 44%
North 42%
Scotland 36%
15, they should aim for mid-upper 40s. I know that isn’t a huge bounce but it’s harder to add to a good polling position.
15 - No. Too ambitious. Tories will be delighted if they finish the week on 43-45%
A new Daily Kos poll on the New Jersey governor’s race reveals… not much. It has Christie at 46%, Corzine at 42%, and Daggett at 7%:
http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2009/9/30/NJ/385
So this race is still very much up in the air.
16. “Funny that given that the big marginals poll had the Lib Dems increasing their seats in Scotland.”
But that marginals poll also showed a 6% collapse in the Lib Dems’ share of the Scottish vote, Mike. Their projected gain in Edinburgh was presumably due to Labour’s vote falling even further, or perhaps tactical voting.
There’s no real question that the Lib Dems are going to suffer a heavy drop in their share of the Scottish vote next time round, given that they received 23% last time round before getting rid of their number one asset.
Thanks for the poll Mike.
This is not a scientific obsevation but just a gut reaction namely that the Tory Confence has got off on the wrong foot because of Lisbon. Cameon has always come over as straightforward and clear - although I think there is many sane reasons for the stance he took with Marr yesterday for the first time it makes him look evasive and a ditherer(I say this as a “returning Tory voter” and a strong Cameron supporter).
Ordinarily one would expect a Tory Conference bounce - this should not be assumed for this week if Europe consumes all else. It all depends whether Cameron can retrieve lost ground - keep his Party onside - and get publicity for the non Euro stuff. I hope he achieves it. It also depends on whether other Tories are prepared to rise above their ego’s for the sake of a united Party.
16. Very funny indeed Mike, as the PH poll shows a drop of 6 points in the SLD vote:
SNP 30% (+11)
Labour 25% (-8)
Tory 23% (+1)
Lib Dem 17% (-6)
Interesting titbit from the poll is that there is a narrow plurality in favour of Blair becoming EU President - 41% to 37% with 22% undecided. Hague might want to reflect on that - despite Labour’s unpopularity, the balance of opinion is in favour of Blair.
And a bizarre question from the poll was whether the leaders’ debate should be a single debate or three head to heads (Brown v Cameron, Brown v Clegg, Cameron v Clegg). Unsurprisingly, people went for the single debate 64% to 20% with 16% undecided. Had anyone even really suggested such an odd format?
21/22- Unless this particular poll is a rogue, they ought to be hoping for at least 46%, IMHO (perhaps for a day or two only, though). If they can only add a few points to today’s result, which should be their pre-conference ebb tide, I can’t imagine they’ll be too excited.
20 And the numbers against?
17. Seth, you are very welcome , and I must say you are deluded re Megrahi, from a Scottish Law viewpoint it was the right thing to do , but that is water under the bridge. The horses are more important.
25, I concur the start is stilted but Europe won’t dominate for 2 reasons:
1) the so-called split is between the Tory party and a media wanting a split
2) tax and deficit and spending issues are all clearly more important
I think Labour could fall back quite a bit, based on this poll - a 14% lead for Labour in the North of England looks too much of a variation with what we have seen recently. We’ll soon get to see whether this follows a call to the tribal Labour loyalties at their Conference - or just a bit of a weird sample.
18. “James, I’m sure that your parish council is all very fascinating North of the border and you believe that we are all out to get you South of the border.”
There has only been one occasion on this board when I’ve felt that people were unreasonably out to get me - that was a few months ago, and yes it involved you, Don, and had absolutely nothing to do with politics. On the broader point you make, if you find posts on Scotland so tiresome I suggest you learn to ignore them - my assumption has always been, and will continue to be, that posts about Scotland are as relevant on a British politics forum as posts about the Mayor of Bedford.
Megrahi - he’s had 43 days compassion and counting. Has Eck got the voodoo doll out yet ?
16 Mike - I think the seat projects from the Marginals poll should be treated with great caution as regards Scotland. The swing to the SNP was just below the level at which they start to win lots more seats, on a Uniform Swing basis. But the swing won’t be uniform; even if the poll proves to be 100% accurate on average, the fact that there are more winnable seats just above the average than there are just below it would mean that the SNP should do better than the published figure, once you add in some randomish variation to swing by seat.
(Of course the variation won’t be totally random, it will also depend on identifiable local factors. But the statistical effect is the same.)
35 .. the seat projections from the Marginals poll…
YouGov - Monday
“Ireland has just held a referendum on the Treaty
of Lisbon; a majority voted in favour of Ireland
ratifying the treaty.”
“From what you know, if a UK referendum were
held on whether or not to ratify this Treaty how
would you vote?”
- I would vote FOR the Treaty
Scotland 25%
London 18%
North 18%
Rest of South 17%
Midlands/Wales 16%
20 - That’s slightly misleading, Stuart. The question was a “forced” accept the Lisbon Treaty or leave the EU. I have no idea whether the figures for a normal “Would you like to leave the EU?” question would be higher or lower, but they wouldn’t be the same.
Sadly, it is difficult to ignore them, as there are so many. Do you not have something the equivalent of this board that is based in/about Scotland or as is the case with a lot of things are you depending upon the English to do it for you?
Random thoughts
Defending on public schools vs attacking on mass illiteracy?
Defending on perceived Bullingdonian “above the law” from 20 years back vs attacking on perceived Baroness 175,000 “above the law” from a few days back?
Defending on w*nky Euro policy vs attacking on government treas*n over the referendum?
Tories want someone soft and fluffy as health bod.
The welfare reforms need to be perceived as being an attempt to cure chavistan.
I’d say a pukka toff leader gives (on balance) a small bonus with working class voters but a massive handicap with guardianistas. As guardianistas control the TV which influences the proles this is a problem. Boris handles it better than Cameron because he doesn’t shirk away from it. Cameron needs to get his head straight on this as letting himself be bullied by people that the rougher types would consider to be complete w*****s is a big political turn off.
37. Rather gives the lie to what someone claimed here yesterday about Scotland being more Eurosceptical than the rest of the UK!
34 Or maybe Libyan cancer treatment is better than that in Scotland? Not just a cheap point - you could imagine that Gaddaffi would recruit the finest cutting edge treatments, maybe not licenced for use here, but showing promising results in tests and studies?
18. You are a laugh Don, nobody can write them like you can.
8 - I mean that there should be a debate between the Westminster leaders of the Tories, Lib Dems, Labour and the Nationalists in both Wales and Scotland on non-devolved issues screened in the relevant territory.
I merely suggest Alex Salmond should not be anywhere near such a debate since he isn’t even seeking to be an MP.
Surely Scotland is in the same position with regards to Europe as Ireland. Without EU money they are ******
42 - Or he wasn’t as ill as his apologists were making out.
See also Biggs, Ronnie
39. “Do you not have something the equivalent of this board that is based in/about Scotland or as is the case with a lot of things are you depending upon the English to do it for you?”
With apologies to Madasafish (I think it was) who objected to me using the word ’subtext’, the subtext of your comment seems to be that you’re an appropriate arbiter of who and what is welcome on this forum. I always try to follow Mike’s rulings, but beyond that I see no reason to seek further guidance from you or others.
35. Richard Nabavi
Here is an exchange between oldnat and Anthony Wells, regarding the PH marginals poll:
Anthony Wells’ original outline of the methodology
“the number of people in each individual seat is not high enough to give reliable voting intention figures for individual constituencies, so instead we split the 238 seats into 17 groups of seats that shared similar characteristics”
oldnat:
“Were the 19 Scottish seats in one set? In other words were the “similar characteristics” restricted to that single factor?”
Anthony Wells’ response
“I’m afraid so. It’s the area where I think that assumption is weakest, and if designing it again from scratch I’d have split them up somehow.
As it is, that’s what we did in 2008, and we wanted to keep things exactly the same to allow comparisons.”
44 - To be fair, that is the silliest of all the objections to Salmond being there.
Writing in support of the Scottish and Welsh posters on here.I find their contributions on the betting front most helpful.
Re 20/37.
One minor observation on the poll. Looking at the regional splits there has been a noticeable change in the ‘others’ splits.
Up until now London has had fairly low support for others and the other English regions have mainly been fairly similar and fairly close to the national figure.
However, today the South and Midlands are low and London and the North are higher than they have previously been. I just wonder if the EU stuff might have had an impact?
Of course it could all be a one off to do with that particlar sample.
44. “I merely suggest Alex Salmond should not be anywhere near such a debate since he isn’t even seeking to be an MP.”
And I’ve made the point a number of times that the SNP won’t ultimately give a monkey’s whether it’s Alex Salmond or Angus Robertson - just so long as they get fair representation.
39. Don , you are either a very sad person or an idiot.
44.David, Salmond doesn’t want a debate with Goldie, Gray and MacTavish before this GE, and he knows that he ain’t going to be included in the other leaders debates. He is just trying to play the turf war card again.
Remember that the Holyrood elections beckon after the GE, we are not going to get much of a rest up here before we start campaigning for it either.
49, why? Brown or Cameron will probably be PM and there’s an outside chance it could be Clegg. Salmond has 0 chance of leading the UK.
52 - for clarification, do you mean “fair” relative to the proportion of the UK electorate they represent? Or are you asking for special treatment?
45. MTF, do you mean like England.
55 - A situation hardly altered by his not standing as a candidate to be an MP.
48 Stuart - Yes, quite so. That suggests the variability from the average will be higher than in the other categories Anthony selected, and I would suggest probably higher than in English Lab/Con contests. But even if that were not the case, there would be some random deviation from UNS, which in this particular case might well give the SNP more seats.
See Andy Cooke’s excellent article on PB2:
http://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/2009/08/waves-on-electoral-tide-punters-guide_15.html
Watch the campaigns of the individual parties up in Scotland over the next few months in the run up to the GE, that should give us some clue to the private polling I am damn sure they have all be carrying out.
Also, follow the money!!
55. “there’s an outside chance it could be Clegg. Salmond has 0 chance of leading the UK.”
Is that in the same sense that there is an ‘outside chance’ of a purple bison being discovered on Pluto? The Liberal Democrats and the SNP both have a zero chance of supplying the next PM.
48 Stuart - Quite so. That suggests the variability from the average will be higher than in the other categories Anthony selected, and I would suggest probably higher than in English Lab/Con contests. But even if that were not the case, there would be some random deviation from UNS, which in this particular case might well give the SNP more seats.
See Andy Cooke’s excellent article on PB2:
http://tinyurl.com/ya5s3kd
54. Christina, I think you will find he is just looking for a fair crack of the whip in Scotland. It si a 2 horse race up here and no way should Labour get a free ride , Salmond is looking after Scotland’s interests as usual, we want labour out up here as well as in England.
They get enough of an advantage with the media as it is.
60, actually I don’t think Clegg should take part either. But there we are.
60. yes to be fair though they are neck and neck for 2nd place in the polls.
55 ‘here’s an outside chance it could be Clegg.’
Arf! MD have you been exposed to mind bending chemical fumes in the Enormo-Haddock research laboratory?
61 Corrected URL:
http://tinyurl.com/y8rq747
Mike, there was a YouGov/People poll at the weekend where the Tories were at 40%, so the 40% in this poll actually represents No Change.
56. “Fair” as in relative to anything that happens or is broadcast in Scotland.
Another point to note from this poll.
The Conservative vote in London, South and Midlands is up (their highest in any of the daily polls so far) and the Labour figures for those regions are at their lowest. In the north the position is reversed.
Again it might be a one off.
56. “for clarification, do you mean “fair” relative to the proportion of the UK electorate they represent? Or are you asking for special treatment?”
I’m glad you asked me that, because this is a point that continues to cause confusion no matter how many times it is explained. We’re talking about fair coverage within Scotland for all four main Scottish parties. That is the principle that has long been adhered to in the allocation of PPBs and PEBs in Scotland - Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories do not get bonus PEBs just for being UK-wide parties. Similarly for leaders’ specials on both the BBC and ITV last time round - Alex Salmond got equal air time to Charles Kennedy, Tony Blair and Michael Howard. The precedents are absolutely clear.
65, it’s a statistical possibility.
Here’s a frightening numerical truth: Balls is more likely to be PM than Clegg.
As for inhaling exciting chemical substances, I must correct you. Morris Dancer has never wanted, nor required, to consume such narcotics. I am naturally this witty and enlightened.
69 - The presence of such a dysfunctiional unrepresentative group of people in Manchester is bound to depress the poll ratings in the North, and theire absence cheer the South.
Are these people really what the Tory party is like?
I haven’t watched their conference for the last couple of years but bloody hell, what an odd bunch.
16 Mike given that the fieldwork for the Megapoll was done during the week before and during the LibDem conference, hardly surprising. It remains the position that the only people in Scotland who truly believe the LibDems are going to do anything other than go into reverse at the GE are the Scottish LibDems.
They wont win Edinburgh South or Aberdeen south.
malcolmg, it is not compulsory to jump to the defence of James I’m sure he could do without the embarrassment of you hanging off his coat tails at all times.
72 tim - Do you think the Labout activists we saw in Brighton were less odd?
61. Many thanks for that link Richard. I have been very busy at work - got a promotion last week
- so am not keeping up with all the gossip!
Blogging from a noisy hotel room in Machester.
Tired too spt Mike but men with thinning hair are not a rare breed.
And its packed.
The hall was full when DC did a 5 minute turn and the standing ovation was spontaneous. The warmth is very real.
I am in the bubble but no news of Europe. Not talk of Europe. It’s all cr*pola. The journos were huddled in a corner chatting.
72. What would we do without your unique perspective?
76, congrats, Mr. Dickson. Good to see a strong British work ethic rewarded
75. There weren’t enough of them to form an opinion were there Richard?
Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland’s political editor:
‘The Goldie conundrum’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/briantaylor/2009/10/the_goldie_conundrum.html
What a great piece by Andy Cooke and I missed it first time around.
Well done Richard Nabavi.
70 - There is no precedent for a UK-wide debate.
I have sympathy with the SNP position in that it will be rather unfair if the other three parties get multiple debates between their leaders to showcase themselves and their policies without the SNP having the chance to put their case in Scotland. However, it would be far more unfair if the debates did not take place because of any unfairness to the SNP. Why should I as a voter in London be deprived of hearing the three major parties’ leaders debate? Nor have I the slightest interest in having the debate disrupted by an interloper who is not seeking my vote (and more than 90% of the population are likewise not being canvassed for an SNP vote).
The solution, it seems to me, lies in a separate Scotland-only debate or in allowing the SNP an additional party political broadcast immediately after each debate. If the law needs to be changed to let the debates go ahead between the three main party leaders, I would support this to the hilt.
62.A fair crack of the whip in Scotland?? Malcolm, where do you think I live, Surrey??
This political anorak follows the Scottish media and the blogsphere up here. You are like a bunch of wasps right now, ready to swarm down on any sign of descent anywhere in Scotland in any stream of political debate in the MSM or the blogsphere.
Good politics, no doubt about it, and I admire that fire in your belly. But can we stop playing the chippy neglected Scottish partner please. I mean one less than pro Salmond Brian Taylor article garnered 500 comments in a couple of days mostly from the Nats. Its like saying that the Tories are not getting a fair wind and a good crack of the whip in the MSM or blogsphere either…
Lets be honest, and tell it as it is.
IF the debates happened BEFORE the election was called, then would there be any obligation to consider the Scottish or Welsh or UKIP or BNP positions? Would they fall outside the Representation of the People Acts?
If everyone knows the election is going to be in May, then could Brown/Cameron/Clegg hold a debate in each of January, February and March - even theoretically in early April (but that would get caught by Easter in 2010)
80 Good point jsfl. I guess we’ll have to fall back on the sample that were on the platform…
74. Don, I was merely pointing out that as ever you post utter tripe and have the mistaken belief that you own the site and have some power re who can and cannot post. I am well aware that James is capable of defending himself.
Scottish Lib Dems: you have been duped, and duped badly, by Wendy Alexander’s Calman Commission:
‘Cameron says Scots government cannot have borrowing powers in present climate’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6861871.ece
72 ‘what an odd bunch.’
A rich vein of satire from tim the anonymous keyboard warrior, and internet fantasist.
Political activists as a breed are odd. Isn’t that obvious?
*Tried to spot…
60 - “The Liberal Democrats and the SNP both have a zero chance of supplying the next PM.”
Really? Literally zero? In which case, you’ll presumably be happy to offer me infinity/1 on the Lib Dems supplying the next Prime Minister?
I will happily settle for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000/1, however.
Deal?
90 Watch it!
70 - OK, thanks: so the English should not have to see Salmond in a debate at all then? Have I understood correctly now?
81 - I thought Goldie was Samcams best buddy from Brizzle
malcolm, I am sure James is pleased to hear that you have full confidence in his abilities. I am sure it was a worry that his lapdog did not respect him or his abilities.
Michael Settle: ‘SNP is waiting for a London Tory government’
http://www.heraldscotland.com/blogs/parcel-of-rogues/michael-settle-snp-is-waiting-for-a-london-tory-government-1.924216
84. Christina, It is a different story in the newspapers and TV, where it is very biased against the SNP. I do take your point re blogs which I believe just show the support for the SNP and how it si growing.
84. “You are like a bunch of wasps right now”
Stubborn squirrels, Christina, stubborn squirrels.
“But can we stop playing the chippy neglected Scottish partner please. I mean one less than pro Salmond Brian Taylor article garnered 500 comments in a couple of days mostly from the Nats. Its like saying that the Tories are not getting a fair wind and a good crack of the whip in the MSM or blogsphere either…
Lets be honest, and tell it as it is.”
And of course less-than-supportive BBC headlines about Cameron attracted no comment at all here earlier today…
88. Ha Ha Ha , what will Auntie Annabelle say to that , guaranteed that it will be orders understood London , we will not mention Calman again.
92. The only certainty in this coming election is that the Lib Dems will finish 3rd.
Come on,shadsy.Give us some each-way betting,fifth the odds 1-2-3.
Mike. How exactly are LibDems making progress? YouGov 25Sep -21%, 5 Oct -20%.
79.
thanks MD
From the BBC:
“The Tory leader said the party needed a “strong and positive mandate” from the public to implement such big changes. ”
Can anyone tell me what constitutes the above?
Poll is very disappointing considering Labour got a bounce last week. The Tories need to be hitting 45% to be confident of forming the next government.
105 - The conference only started today
94. “OK, thanks: so the English should not have to see Salmond in a debate at all then? Have I understood correctly now?”
It’s entirely up to the broadcasters to decide how they fulfil their responsibilities to ensure fair coverage of all parties within Scotland. They might conclude that including the SNP and Plaid Cymru in UK-wide debates is the simplest option (to be clear, the SNP and PC would probably take turns, as they do on Remembrance Sunday), or there might be Scotland-specific debates shown instead of not as well as the ones shown in England.
106 - so its all downhill from here then?
106 - after a weekend of the media making up stories to amuse themselves. Guido has blogged on the Europe issue - with an amusing quote from Hannan.
104. I would think a parliamentary majority is what he had in mind. just a guess.
Questions on Europe asked. Very interesting.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2298
@104:
At a guess, winning an election?
98.Malcolm, no its not!! Stuart would have nothing to post here if that were really true. You do get a fair crack of the whip, but the majority of the journalists and their newspapers are reflecting the view of their readership. They are simple not pro independence!!
That they do not give Alex Salmond and his team fair coverage on the day to day bread and butter issues of Holyrood is a complete myth that I am fed up hearing. They do.
And we do not need petty political bio’s of journalist either to boost an already favourable article. Sorry, but you have all been getting away with that chip for far too long here for the sake of peace and quiet.
I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that the end of the Union would be a sad day. Scotland has historically punched well above its weight in terms of science and engineering; there’s much to admire.
I don’t care for the “we’re well rid of you, Mars bar frying eejits etc” attitude at all.
That said, it is a union, not the Dark Empire, so if the majority of Scottish people want independence, then I think that’s fair enough; we can’t simultaneously grumble about the democratic deficit in the EU and complain about a Scottish referendum.
75 - Perhaps its the juxtaposition with Manchester.
Its like ManU and Man City have both got big matches on and they’ve drawn Haywards Heath Golf Club, Woking Hockey Club, Henley Rowing Club, Corinthians and the WI Chutney making champions all at the same time.
Hello chums, I’m at a quiz being hosted by Eric Pickles in Manchester. The mood at conference is quite odd. While everyone is in good spirits, I thought it would be much more bullish, more celebratory.
I caught a good speech by Boris earlier, who entered to the Eastenders theme and Eric Pickles who complained that Lord Mandelson had stolen his catchphrase, chums.
116 - Next year will be more celebratory.
116 “I thought it would be much more bullish, more celebratory.”
It’s only 2009, Bob. You’ve booked a year too early!!
The three things that caught my attention were the challenge made by Anabel Goldie to Salmond for a debate, the announcement that constituency size would be standardised and that technical colleges would be reintroduced. I guess we’ll see now if Salmond really does want a debate after all.
The problem the SNP faces in a Leader’s Debate is that Alex Salmond is not the Leader of the SNP at Westminster and will not be standing for a Westminster seat.
Thinking in reverse, our SNP friends would howl with protest if come the 2011 election, David Cameron, Nick CLegg and Auntie Harriet/Ed Millibland/The Postie/who cares insisted on participating in the Leaders Debate with Eck. He and the SNP would immediately claim that it should be Auntie Annabel, Tavish Scott and the Invisible Man from East Lothian who should debate against him.
The SNP has a perfectly competent leader at Westminster so we should have a Scottish only debate featuring David Cameron, Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg and the leader of the SNP group at Westminster.
As Alexander in the Meerkat Insurance ad would say, “simples”!
113. Christina, now you are having a laugh, for evidence I use the Scotsman, they do not care about readers they just print Labour press releases. On average the press and TV are very biased, BBC for example , Glen Campbell is ridiculous.
“I am in the bubble but no news of Europe. Not talk of Europe. It’s all cr*pola. The journos were huddled in a corner chatting.”
by SallyC
Isn’t it strange that in films and telly programmes journalists are depicted as ruthless pursuers of scoops, getting one over on their competitors. In real life they are timid beasties, not daring to publish anything until agreed with all the others.
re 105. It’s best to check fieldwork times and dates before coming to conclusions.
In any case all this polling is just fluff because of the artificial political environment caused by the broadcasting rules.
114
JohnM
You take our comments far too seriously..Mars bar frying..
If we wanted to diss the Scots then Mars Bars are the last thing we would mention: more like putting cabers where the sun does not shine.
And anyway it’s deep fried Mars Bars : in batter. Personally I prefer deep fried battered haggis.
120 Do we know he is called Alexander?
119. Bob as stated on here many times , Salmond wants to debate with the organ grinders not the monkeys. Annabelle cannot make any policy or decision without phoning London so it is pointless even talking to her.
123- It’s all fluff except for the impending PB-exclusive poll, of course.
121.Malcolm, I don’t buy the Guardian, Herald, Daily Record or the Daily Mirror, but my god it always amazes me how many SNP friends buy the Scotsman. Well they need something to wrap the chips up in.
125 - Actually it’s Aleksandr
120. Easterross, quite agree and so the leader of the SNP at Wesminster should be included in the debates if they are to be broadcast in Scotland.
124. Mad, where the sun does not shine or to eat.
125 - According to the website, he is in fact called Aleksandr.
129 - That two of us were able to answer that instantly is a little worrying.
75 - Running total of Platform Speakers so far.
Eton 4
State 3
133 - Simples naturally
Malcolm- surely that makes Alex a scaredy cat? Or a chicken? Anyway, the quiz is about to start.
135 - And I was going to ask for a temporary ban of a day or two for any posters quilty of using the word “simples”. Clearly this is something that only irritates me!
@134: Are you keeping a totals on gender, ethnicity, region, favourite colour?
Or is it only this particular prejudice that’s important?
137 - I know, but think it was (just about!) justified in this context.
139 - Phew! It’s not just me!
why is there no yougov tracker poll on saturdays, do they not do polling on fridays? if not, why not
138 - Its such a bizarre representation.
All the State school people seem to come from Yorkshire.
Etonians are the biggest single group And the minor Public School people (Spelman Maude and Lansley) all seem to be expenses fiddling incompetents.
142
Tim, Do tell us how many Govt Ministers are involved in dodgy expenses. How about opening both eyes instead of just the one.
Someone seems to have hacked into tim’s hotmail account and is posting unusually low grade material. Sabotaging his good name.
144 - Tory Conference = Monty Python Convention.
Four Yorkshiremen + Upper Class Twit of the Year.
The BBC and leftie journalists are plugging the “Tory Euro split/nightmare”.
They’re wasting their time. It might concern the nerds on ConHome, but Joe Public doesn’t understand it and isn’t interested.
146 - Maybe someone should start asking them some searching questions about their tax affairs.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218131/How-BBCs-stars-dodge-50-tax.html
I note with interest that we’re not seeing any meaningful criticism of any of the policy announcements.
146 - Bradby on ITN as well.
Although oddly the conference didn’t even make the first segment of the programme.
145 And Tim = Kevin Phillip Bong.
“Kevin, you polled no votes at all. Not a sausage. Bugger all….”
148 - They can’t really criticis if they intend to steal.
148 That means Labour is going to steal them in the next six months…
151 Snap!
@151: True!
152 - Great minds!!
152 It wont do them any good, they will just be seen to be bankrupt of ideas, which of course is the correct perception.
Nice segment about the Tory Conference on both Grampian and BBC Scotland tonight. Good stuff.
151 - The Benefit proposals are interesting.
I just don’t think cutting £1000 per year from 500 families to give £500,000 to the Cameron family is the right way to spend any savings.
158 - You are odious.
The threads on PB.com do seem much quieter today.
159.James are we the only Tories on here not at the Manchester shindig? Someone should have organised a PB.com get together.
160 - Indeed!! I wish I was at Manchester and will definitely be wherever it is next year!!
Just sold a kitty!
Felines for Tories!!
London Lite tonight said that TOry pro-European MPs and Eurosceptic MPs were openly trading arguments. Coudl anyone tell me which MPs they were referring to?
I think we should leave Scotland to enjoy its Arc of Prosperity with Iceland and Ireland that they were desperate for. Without English subsidies.
Scot Nats are such economic illiterates.
146 - I had a look at Conhome just now and for a site that’s supposed to represent the grassroots of a party which has a good poll lead/is on course to win the election most posters seem hostile to the party! But I suppose a lot of the sensible posters are at the conference.
Oh God, f3ck YouGov!
I took part in a YouGov survey this morning (which included a voting question). One of the questions I was asked was - to paraphrase - ‘would I be watching Gordon Brown’s conference speech’: I said definitely not
Waugh says to watch Newsnight - a mole tells him Boris intv is a corker
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/10/boris-v-paxo-a-classic.html
Tim = IHT god to all troubled IFA’s.
Our invitation to speak to the local IFA-club remains open from last night - RSVP. We’ll pay for your National Express coach ticket (1-way) too if that helps?
The class obsession postings above are a trifle distracting but keep up with those £500k Mirror financial planning comments - let’s kill the IHT tax cuts for the sub-£1m classes.
Trying to base a financial argument on that comic is a bit unhelpful but I’m sure most people won’t notice.
IFA4TIM(&IHT)
Badges are being made up in China and should be here for Xmas if anyone wants any?
165 - Most of the sensible people will be in Manchester so ConHome will be a free for all for the wingnuts and trolls.
I note with glee that tim seems rather tetchy today.
I assume that means the Tory proposals are going down well?
Another blow by blow account of the row that never never was on BBC News just now. It appears that the journalists have agreed that the row will continue tomorrow, then fade away.
159 Odious? Tedious would be a better description.
Still tim clearly has no problem with Gordon Brown claiming his Sky Sports subscription from the long suffering taxpayer. Or the dubious flip flopping of a flat to Mrs Brown to take full advantage of a lifetime mortgage tax reduction scheme on his flat. Four legs good, two legs better and all that.
I guess the 10p tax rise on the poor helped to pay for it, so it doesn’t really matter.
167
For me, the eye popping fact in that article is the salary of a mid ranking news presenter. £92,000?!
170. Maybe he’s running short of fresh smears. Aside from the ones on his keyboard.
167. LOL! Sounds fun!
Great trail on the Newsnight website for tonight - good old Crick sounds like he will help the split story too… anyone spot their little error….
Here’s what is coming up on tonight’s programme:
“The convention is that I ask the questions, but never mind.” - Jeremy Paxman to London Mayor Boris Johnson in a lively interview on Europe, and his relationship with David Cameron, which has just taken place at the Labour party conference in Manchester, and which will be in tonight’s programme.
Also tonight, Political editor Michael Crick has been on the trail of Ken Clarke, trying to get to the bottom of how divided the party really is over Europe.
170 Martin C - Of course they won’t. It is settled truth that the Tories Have No Policies.
169…..as opposed to normally, when….?
MTF, you are wrong, so wrong.
When you say that “the Liberal Democrats should attack Labour”, what you really mean is that the “Liberal Democrats should win over Labour voters”. And Liberal Democrats would then agree with you.
But there is no point whatsoever in attacking Labour per se, because this would simply entice Labour voters into…. Where? Into the Tory camp. So no.
I don’t think Liberal Democrats are so innocent as to play the Tory game for them.
170. yes, that monty python sketch was pretty lame when it came out, which was 40 years ago. Must Try Harder.
166 Watching Gordon’s conference speech - was this a Back to the Future poll?
“Also tonight, Political editor Michael Crick has been on the trail of Ken Clarke, trying to get to the bottom of how divided the party really is over Europe.”
How kind of Crick to follow around one of the few pro-Euro Tory MPs hoping for a tiny comment he can then ejaculate over and excitedly tell the world about.
181- That’s what Brown needs to win over voters, play Johnny B Goode with an electic guitar on stage!
Are Newsnight’s viewing figures down again? Perhaps Paxman meant to say. “I ask the questions, and then interupt your answers.”
184
I like the fact they think there’s a Labour party conference going on in Manchester myself…
183. “Maybe you’re not quite ready for a massive deficit…but your kids are gonna love it.”
179 Curious - You are quite right that you don’t win over voters by attacking the party they lean towards. But the same problem applies to the LibDem’s over-the-top and personalised attacks on the Tories, which we saw two weeks ago. If they work at all, they will drive voters to Labour (as the best chance of keeping out the evil Tories), not to the LibDems.
That is why I thought the LibDems’ tactics at the Conference were completely wrong.
What they should be doing is wooing Labour and ex-Labour voters with a message which is ‘we share your values, but Labour have forgotten them and have forgotten you’. I saw little or no sign of that, and I now don’t expect to see it before the GE. I don’t, therefore, expect the LibDems to take more than a handful of Labour seats.
170. Martin Coxall
“I note with glee that tim seems rather tetchy today.
I assume that means the Tory proposals are going down well?”
Has tim given details yet as to what sort of communists Mandelson, Darling, Straw, Ainsworth etc were and what their faction’s views of the Khmer Rouge was?
No?
Looks like SeanT had it right then and tim was wrong.
179 – “there is no point whatsoever in attacking Labour”
There is of course the matter of holding the present Government to account, which unfortunately the LibDems have failed to do for 12 years.
189 - Seant was right when be claimed that Straw aupported the murder of British people?! I doubt it. I really doubt it.
The blogsphere coverage of the whole Conference season has been poor so far compared to the last couple of years. Very disappointing, not enough gossip or quiet tittle tattle!!
162.Plato, congrats, do you breed a certain type or is it just rescues?
Ironic much?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6261756/MoD-how-to-stop-leaks-document-is-leaked.html
189 Leave tim alone! He’s in mourning for the death of IHT - and its rebirth as the Dead Millionnnaires Tax…
173 “For me, the eye popping fact in that article is the salary of a mid ranking news presenter. £92,000?!”
If you look at public sector salaries in terms of multiples of the average wage and then think on those salaries being paid out of the taxes of those same average wages there’s scope for seeing the whole public sector edifice as being a bit rotten.
At least people get a choice about whether or not they want to buy some of Osborne’s family’s wallpaper.
The obsession with the European issue by journalists and leftists is baffling, why don’t they question the Conservatives on areas such as Afghanistan or energy or housing where they’re positions are very vague?
193 Maine Coons mainly and Bengals plus crosses for those who don’t have £400 to shell out on a pedigree kitty.
The one who has just gone is a gorgeous silver tabby pedigree Maine Coon boy - fabulous show quality markings and very cuddly too.
Looks like pb has hit holiday season, with many posters larging it up at the Costa del Manchester.
I’m amazed how much volatility there is in the daily trackers - if so many polls by the same organisation can produce such swings, I’m less and less convinced by the accuracy - I just don’t buy these kinds of swings on a daily basis.
And agreed that the LDs should be love-bombing voters. Out on the streets we’re speaking to one disaffected former Labour supporter after another. They won’t vote at the moment, but their votes are all to play for between us and Labour if we get the message right.
I don’t see why the BBC couldn’t save money by hiring struggling actors to read the news, on a salary of say, 30k a year. Could cut a chunk off the licence fee that way.
Government overshadowing the Tory Party Conference by announcing a public sector pay freeze. Chumps*
*As defined by the New Mandelson Dictionary.
198.Sounds really lovely. I have got two, one is a dom moggy with a great charactor and the terror of the canine population around here. And the other is a soppy cream persian, or the mobile fur rug with an almond face who hates being brushed.
Used to foster for the cat protection league years ago pre kids.
196 Agreed - I’ve worked in several public sector roles and was paid 5 yrs ago £80k plus perks for a job that really should have paid £55-£60k at most.
I was surrounded by similar largess and frankly found it very off-putting.
The notion that public sector workers are all scraping by on the minimum wage is laughable folk lore these days.
201 - have they actually done this? Hopefully the public will see it for what it actually is… as they did with Brown’s saunter to Iraq.
201. Don’t the Labour Party realise that from next year the Tories will be in control and be calling the shots and they’ll be the ones in a position to over-shadow the Labour conference?
We’ve won the election
191. Neil
Perhaps you would like to give details as to which communist groups Mandelson, Straw, Darling, Ainsworth etc were in and what their faction’s views of the Khmer Rouge was?
Tim regards SeanT’s knowledge of the subject as ’superficial’ but wont reveal his apparantly greater knowledge of the subject.
Perhaps the truth is rather embarassing?
204 - Indeed. Designed to keep Osborne off the headlines tomorrow. They really are scared witless of him aren’t they.
201 ‘a public sector pay freeze.’
Really? That should energise the comrades.
203: the thing is that there are a large number of very low paid public sector workers. these are the ones that actually deserve more money. But the rest of the public sector workers tend to be being paid far too much. just like the country as a whole the gap between the best and worst off in the public sector kepps growing.
Nice to see that only Labour Party documents were passed on to the KGB by Jack Jones.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8289962.stm
Perhaps the Beeboid has been reading Christopher Andrew’s lastest book all day, whilst looking for Tories to smear.
210
Indeed. Some low paid civil servants had to have an emergency pay increase a year ago as their pay feel below the government’s own minimum wage.
208 James do you have a e mail address I could contact you by. tried your blog…
189. As a young man, Alistair Darling joined a tiny communist groupuscule that supported the violent overthrow of democracy and the murder of innocent British civilians by the IRA.
However, according to you, this highly political young man joined this minuscule political group for reasons entirely unconnected with their core political beliefs.
It is a little known fact that the young Josef Goebbels joined the Nazi party because he liked Hitler’s way of making sangria at Gestapo supper parties.
#53, by malcolmG October 5th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
39. Don , you are either a very sad person or an idiot.
And here is me thinking you [malcolmG] could make an adult contribution…!
Where is Peter Cairns when you need a sensible SNPer…?
Its not a Tory freeze, its an invigorating, healthy, Labour investment in refridgeration.
Someone here, today or yesterday, asked what Labour would do to disrupt the conference. Now we know.
“If you look at public sector salaries in terms of multiples of the average wage and then think on those salaries being paid out of the taxes of those same average wages there’s scope for seeing the whole public sector edifice as being a bit rotten.”
The pay range for equivalent mid-ranking civil servants, is nowhere near £96,000.
213 - Sure james@jamesburdett.co.uk
207 - Sean is free to psot the links he has uncovered, but remember he only discovered the difference between Trotsyists and Stalinists a couple of months ago.
An easy mistake to make given his lack of political knowledge.
Although how anyone can read Homage to Catalonia and not realise that Orwell was being shot at by the Stalinists does suggest a limited understanding.
He probably though To Kill A Mockingbird was a critique of multiculturalism.
BBC ticker saying Darling is calling for a pay freeze for some senior civil servants.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8291810.stm
221 What happened to the convention that parties did not announce policies to overshadow coverage of each other’s conferences?
221, disappointed in Darling. Would’ve expected Brown, Balls or Harman to pull a stunt like that.
221.He could have done that last week.
219 would you believe it my e mail is down.. expect an e mail later, nothing terribly exiting…
223 - They are all the same MD.
222- Well the BBC News front page are sticking to that convention (not!)
207. Given how many known and proven ex communists are at the top of the Labour party - Straw, Darling, Ainsworth, Byers, Milburn, Clarke, Mandelson etc etc - and give the vintage of communists and Stalinists whereof we speak, I’d be surprised if they weren’t at least members of parties that gave succour to the baby-killers of the Khmer Rouge.
I have a new friend in Bangkok - Roland Neveu. He is a famous photographer of about 60 years old, he was famously present in Phnom Penh when the KR took over the city and began their annihilation of the Cambodian people.
He now admits that, as an ardent young French leftist at the time, a soixante huitard, he initially supported the Khmer Rouge: he thought they were a simple liberation movement, fighting the horrid Yanks.
This is in the early mid 70s, when so many Labour luminaries were also on the totalitarian far left. Ergo I’d be surprised if they didn’t know whereof Neveu speaks.
Unlike all the disgusting Labour communists, Neveu now admits his views were totally wrong, that he was an idiot, that he owes the Cambodians an apology for believing all that Marxist/Maoist bullshit. He first realised he was hugely in error when he went back to Cambodia a few months after Day Zero, and heard the first stories of genocide.
He is contrite. What a stark contrast he presents. I’ve never heard Mandelson or Darling ever apologise for their communist past, even as they allege *links* between the Tories and someone who once wore a small fake moustache in Riga.
222. Brown has made the Labour Party as mad as he is!
P*A*T*H*E*T*I*C.
Nothing in Lab conference week and now this on the eve of the speech by Osbourne…
On the bright side, the journo’s can now turn their attention to this story, implications and perhaps the timing of it rather than their last fad of Tory European splits…
225 - Shall look forward to it.
210. No-one seems to have spotted the interesting bit about Camerons proposal to cut 10% off the cost of parliment. Essentially he is proposing to cull and cut the top end of middle management - parliment as a whole employs thousands, generally not on high pay…
Interesting example for the rest of the public sector…
218 Middle ranking civil servants at say Executive Officer grade [first level of management] are on £30k+. A specialist grade [Senior Information Officer] with no management responsibility starts at £32k.
I recruited at least 15 peeps using this criteria only late last year.
Now forgive me, but a £32k starting salary to write blurb for internal newsletters does not seem a ‘vital frontline’ service to me.
226, disagree. Darling’s a brake on the worst excesses… although this move is tribal bullshit. As I said, I’m disappointed.
I hope Major gives both barrels like over Iraq. Less emotive, of course, than that.
21
It seems the Labour glacier is already melting.
Tories seem to have hit a ceiling of 40% - they’ve probably been just below this level for about a fortnight.
Gove slaughtered by Jon Snow on Ch4
Hung Parliament?
221. Something tells me there will be a big announcement lined up every evening simply to try and force the Tories off the headlines and the front pages.
What goes around can come around…
222 I suspect it still won’t overshadow Osborne….
A “pay-freeze” for most GPs is actually a pay cut unless all their staff have a pay freeze as well.
I suppose we can take comfort from the fact that Brown’s fingerprints are all over this one, and that whatever choice Brown makes will inevitably be the wrong one…
237, they released the news too early. He’d probably be working on the speech anyway, now he just needs to add some disparaging lines about Labour playing politics with the colossal deficit.
222. I don’t think it will over-shadow Ozzie. But its the principle of the thing. Labour are collectively loopy and insane. Brown has driven them totally over the edge. Its one mad decision after another.
Sorry thats to 237.
237
George Osborne now knows which bit of his speech the news will use in their bulletins - his response to the freeze. One killer quip there will resonate and hours to prepare it.
207. Straw claims he was a Stalinist:
http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/im-no-trotskyist-says-jack-straw-more-a-stalinist-britains-communist-government/
Not sure which flavour of communist Richard Gott (literary ed. of the Guardian) was. But maybe he just did it for the money.
238. Doctors’ salaries shouldn’t be frozen, they should be HALVED.
plate, what’s your opinion on these pay scales,
https://www11.i-grasp.com/fe/tpl_gchq01ssl.asp?newms=jj&id=27753
where do you think they rank alongside the private sector for similar jobs?
239, we can’t. True it may bode ill for Labour tactically, but if Darling has decided he wants to be Gordon’s glove puppet that removes a brake on the crazier schemes of our rocking horse PM.
233 - I’m not sure where you’re getting your figures from but in my department Executive Officer’s in London earn less than £30k even if they are at the top of their band, I’m only just on £30 k (assuming I get the pay award agreed) and I’m an HEO.
There’s a lot of rubbish posted on this site about public sector wages………
221. Standby for the relaunch of Laptops for Journalists, or a series of unhelpful leaks about Brown’s spending or tax plans or ministerial incompetence.
240
I bow to your quicker mind, Morris D.
198 How big are Maine Coons? I heard they are quite big.
“Middle ranking civil servants at say Executive Officer grade [first level of management] are on £30k+. ”
EO’s aren’t mid-ranking, nor are they on £30+K.
I was looking forward to a salvo today and it’s been actually a bit boring - Warsi did a great job but…
There are 2.5hrs until Paxo and Boris - any suggestions to perk me up?
245 - Well if we don’t want any doctors, i suppose it might be worth a shot. Would save all the money spent on doctors salaries, not just half of it!
228 - Keep reading and learning Sean.
And when you’ve found the links post them.
Here’s a tip.
Looking for a Brit who was nice to Maoist China around this time and Ted Heath may fit your bill more that a Trot.
Enjoy your journey of discovery.
from the BBC link at 221 “…..He is also imposing an immediate pay freeze on senior civil servants although this does not include the military - affecting 750,000 people…..”
Is this badly written or are there really 750,000 senior civil servants?
Very marginal movement really, my Con 38% Lab28% Libdem22% looking good for the GE.
Surely, those sort of announcements on public sector pay by the government is just another reason for this group of people to move over to the tories. They must of hoped, even if it was a slight hope, that labour wouldnt freeze their pay. Now they have, there is no reason for them to stay with them. Also, everyone else in the public service on modest wages must surely no labour is coming for them to! wage freezes plus huge tax rises under labour, or wage freezes and small tax rises under tories?! If it was pay rise plus tax rises they may have stayed labour.
248 That’s what DWP Whitehall pay from my experience.
The DH have enormous grade inflation where an EO is paid as a G7 in other depts.
re 246, plato forgot to mention that GC9 is HEO level.
250, hehe, I have a number of useless talents, but my typing speed has actually slowed recently. When I was writing the first drafts of my book it was pretty damn quick.
Here’s an angle that might be fun: how will the Sun play Darling’s announcement?
@255:
POTHWAT.
253 Surely your kitties will keep you amused-I’m sure they’re hard work but a barrel of fun,with their antics!!!
258 A very good point, and it just confirms the Smithson/Sean T rule. When Gordo has to make a decision he will dither and then announce it, and it will be the wrong decision and in this case at the wrong time.
262 Please decode for me.
259 I know there is some departmental variation, but that amount is rather surprising to say the least.
Sky News reporter just said that this is revenge for Cameron responding to the Suns announcement during the Labour conference!
tim
I’m told Manchester is full of stick-ups and poppers.
Has The Wire come to town?
255. I’m sure there is an important difference between Trots, Maoists, Stalinists, Leninists, Marxist-Leninists, Bolsheviks and baby-smashing Khmer Rouge succourers, but sorry, to the rest of us who are NOT totalitarian communists the differences seem picayune.
It’s like the differences between the IRA, the PIRA, and the RIRA and the INLA and the ISWPblahblah, the ideological divides within Irish republicanism are no doubt vastly important to the terrorists themselves, but to everyone else… they are just a bunch of nationalist murderers.
Ditto Trots and whatnot. They are all violent revolutionary Marxists. That’s all that matters.
251 They are the biggest domestic cat breed so a girl is the size of a big tom [say 10-14lbs] and a boy is BIG [say 14-24lbs].
They are very placid, cuddly, playful and chatty - so if you want a housemate that sits on/beside you, talks all the time, stays kittenish until 2-3yrs old then they are a good choice.
Poor old T ? What a tw*t? (I’m not calling Tim a tw*t,just attempting to decode)
228. The overarching argument here is that it is wrong for the Tories to align themselves with a group that celebrates the actions of the Latvian SS IN THE PRESENT DAY, not that Latvian SS involvement is some sort of stain that should forever isolate that country. Whether Peter Mandelson sold the Morning Star in his mustachioed youth is besides the point.
267.Oh dear, will someone pick up that dummy.
267 - What an utter load of bo**ocks.
Re 267 Jon Craig was suggesting that the Government had got wind of one of the commitments that George Osborne was going to make tomorrow. Where Conservatives lead Brown and Labour follow…….
“They must of hoped, even if it was a slight hope, that labour wouldnt freeze their pay. ”
I doubt it. Most would have seen the government’s rhetoric, and at the same time had emails from their HR departments explaining about various cuts. If anything, it reinforced the duplicity of this government.
270 My mum used to have a pure white tom who weighed dead on a stone-and he WAS a big,heavy mog-so the upper end of the male range for your breed sounds like a one-cat profit boost for Whiskas/Kitekat!
274, actually it may be accurate. I concur that it’s responding to spilt milk by pissing in someone’s champagne, but this may be how Labour (who, we must recall, had a hissyfit and a half over it) feel.
Darling’s “announcement” will fall apart the moment it is clarified that he is not enforcing a pay freeze, merely putting it forward as a recommendation to the various pay review bodies.
184 dr spyn
I found that “interview” by Paxman astonishingly arrogant. We have a political journalist Glenn Campbell who tends to do the same thing - thus giving rise to the neologism “glenncambelly” as a description for a biased and ignorant journalist.
259 One of the big problems in the Civil Service is that pay scales in different departments have got really out of line, which amongst other things, stops staff transferring across Whitehall.
Another problem touched on above is very different expectations of staff at a grade - the ex Inland Revenue paid their EOs more than Customs yet they had far less responsibility……
267. “Sky News reporter just said that this is revenge for Cameron responding to the Suns announcement during the Labour conference!”
They call that revenge? What a bunch of chumps.
278 - Possibly but it seems like spite.
252 Depends on the definition of mid-ranking - EO are the biggest group of managers in the CS - I used this fact as the basis of my point.
Arguing over CS grades is pointless - the fact is that CS managers are not minimum wage serfs by any stretch of the imagination - and are well paid/rewarded for their work compared to those not paid for by the tax payer.
283, it is spite, if that’s their reasoning. I’m just surprised Darling’s going along with mad Gordon’s crazy revenge.
267 would be (just about) plausible if Labour hadn’t already done similar during the LibDem conference.
285. Like I said, Loopy Gords driven them all as mad as a box of frogs.
285 - What alternative does he have?
272. What complete and utter crap. If Labour found out that senior Tories were members of the National Front in the 70s you lefties would fill the Millennium Dome with your collective ejaculate. We’d never hear the end of it.
And of course the NF, however vile, never espoused the slaughter of British citizens or the violent destruction of democracy.
Yet we are all supposed to overlook the youthful indiscretions of so many Labourites in joining totalitarian revolutionary groups, even as you overlook David Cameron joining the Bullingd… oh, sorry, no, you don’t overlook that either. You bang on and on about it.
The hypocrisy of the left is the musk from the anal duct of British politics, where Labour is at present situated, prior to its final voidance.
266 I was shocked - a G7 in DH was doing an HEO role in DWP - that’s two grades out for the same job.
One of the ‘benefits’ of working contract is the relative grade culture of many government depts.
280
Glenn Campbell! the Rhinestone Cowboy, wondered what happened to him, so he’s doing political journalism now, well I never. Dolly Parton newsreader next.
Incidentally the actual ‘freeze’ only applies to 40,000. 700,000 will get 0-1%.
288, telling Gordon he’s a chump?
Darling’s unsackable. All he has to is say no.
Darling must be telling a lie about public sector pay freeze. Gordo explicitly denied it in his Sky interview last week. Unless…
294, really? Don’t recall that. Be fun if it’s true.
208 - its rather amusing isn’t it
not a lot of dignity going to be left in Labour ranks by the time they get binned from “government”.
If we can call this shambling corpse of a government a “governemnt” in the true meaning of the word.
287 Boxes of frogs,super-sized moggies mentioned in the last half-hour-wonder what animal will crop up next?
297, enormo-haddock!
@296: They really are a depressing bunch. I wonder if they’ve got a two-pronged attack here. They’re partially hoping to distract from the Tory conference, and partially hoping that “public sector pay freeze” will be associated with the Tories because the news broke during their conference.
Feeble.
289
Unlike rightwingers who started off on the left of course, they are forgiven.
Let this be a warning to you Seant.
A stikingly handsome man in his youth, with black hair, thick spectacles and a lantern jaw, Sherman suffered the ravages of a life lived to the full. In his declining years, his face became wizened and pock-marked, and his fine bone-structure increased in prominence.
Unless you’ve got a portrait in the attic.
295. “Mr Brown dismissed the idea that he might means-test child benefit to save cash and denied plans for a pay freeze in the public sector, although he made clear that job losses could not be ruled out.”
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/131029/Brown-reckons-Labour-can-win-but-it-s-not-looking-good-is-it-Gordon-
222 - conventions like laws are not for the Labour party.
Do as they say, not as they do.
@298: Electro-haddock. The 80s popfish.
“The overarching argument here is that it is wrong for the Tories to align themselves with a group that celebrates the actions of the Latvian SS IN THE PRESENT DAY”
And aligning with present day c*mmunists?
298 Puts me in mind of Eric Pickles
289 - Perhaps an essay on how Orwell was more useful to Stalin than you, a fellow travelling sex tourist, were to Gary Glitter, may focus your mind.
500 words please.
301, thanks for the link
I cannot believe the esteemed Mr. Brown would tell an untruth. My faith in humanity is rocked, rocked, I tell you! Not unlike an over-vigorously ridden rocking horse.
303, electro-haddock?! Madness!
It rather reminds me of the Russians deperate unmanned moonshot attempt shortly before the Americans landed on the moon….
297 The Telegraph does the best cute animal pix
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/6255504/Animal-pictures-of-the-week-02-October-2009.html
308 even desperate
@303: It is the next step in piscine evolution…think about the possibilities…then get out your gene splicer!
If the Bollinger Club trashes a resturaunt it is some how beyond the pale, but if you join a nutjob Marxist mini groupsicle which advocates the compulsory re-education or liquidation of kulaks or imperialist running dogs it is some how cool and a mere youthful indiscretion.
309 This is my favourite - what a tiny hippo!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/6255504/Animal-pictures-of-the-week-02-October-2009.html?image=8
malcomg, James et al
Sorry, I have been off-line for some time. Returning to the leaders debate question…
The situation now (as opposed to when the Major PPB was stopped) is not comparable because of devolution.
The argument that someone who has no chance of influencing or implementing policy that is UK wide should take part in a debate on those matters is ludicrous, but remember Scottish people do vote in Westminster elections so have a legitimate interest in seeing it.
The idea that the same debate should be denied to viewers in Scotland who voted for one of the participants is even more laughable.
There is an argument for a separate Scottish debate on devolved matters, but of course the other parties should be represented by people who participate in that assembly.
The logical conclusion is Gordo/Cameron/Cleggover broadcast UK wide. Salmond/Goldie/Gray/ the other guy broadcast in Scotland only.
The SNP are the main opposition to Labour for seats in the Scottish Parliament, not to provide a PM for the UK.
I hope the SNP go to court. I’ll get the popcorn in.
#272, by diane October 5th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
228. The overarching argument here is that it is wrong for the Tories to align themselves with a group that celebrates the actions of the Latvian SS IN THE PRESENT DAY, not that Latvian SS involvement is some sort of stain that should forever isolate that country.
Sweetheart, you are NPMP’s feminine side (or Virendra Sharma MP). Ask Rodger’s Dutch friends about the Waffen SS Indian soldiers service in Holland.
289. I’m not saying that it’s perfectly fine and dandy that certain members of the Labour party were Communists back in the day.
I just wonder what on earth it has to do with today’s Conservatives aligning themselves with a party that aligns itself with a celebration of the Latvian SS RIGHT NOW.
311, I did try creating electro-haddock once… it was a disaster. It’s also why I can never return to Norway. There was some… unpleasantness.
I do wonder how the Tories and the Sun attack badger-man.
313 Nah, just big carrots.
309, 313 - Plato, if you don’t know about this website, you’ve got a lot of happy surfing ahead:
http://icanhascheezburger.com/
@317: Ah, well. Back to the drawing board. How about an electro-Pickles?
I just wonder what on earth it has to do with today’s Conservatives aligning themselves with a party that aligns itself with a celebration of the Latvian SS RIGHT NOW
by diane October 5th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
diane, would it be a problem if they were remembering their kinfolk’s sacrifice if they had fought with the Luftwaffe against the Soviets? Or is it only a problem because they fought with the scary Waffen SS?
320, it could work. We might need to deflate him first.
220- To be fair, tim, the difference between Stalinists and Trotskyists, to ordinary people, is essentially nothing. Unless you’re one of them, there’s not much reason to separate the one from the other.
321 - I’d imagine its because many of those who voluntarily joined the SS had participated in the mass murder of Latvias Jews and are celebrated by the Tories Allies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktors_Ar%C4%81js
314 Scott P
Unfortunately your post betrays your ignorance. For the Scottish Parliament elections, we do have leader debates - nothing new for us.
What would be the point of discussing devolved issues in a UK election? It’s the reserved powers the UK GE is all about. Due to asymmetrical devolution, the UK Parliament/Government also acts as the English Parliament/Government, but English education, health etc are parochial issues for England, and nothing to do with the UK issues that are the only relevant ones in Scotland, Wales and NI, but also relevant to England.
You can keep your own little issues to yourselves - don’t try to impose them on the rest of us.
316.
Instead of trotting out this dreary point scoring claptrap, can’t you just _try_ just a _little_ bit? Just bimble over to Wikipedia and try and wrap your head around the fact that Latvians were conscripted into the Waffen SS? To fight against the Soviets who’d annexed their country in 1939; which by their lights was a patriotic thing to do? And that Latvians might be proud of that fact?
I mean, it’s right there on the Intertubes, I’m not asking you to go to a library or get out of your chair or anything.
313 That pygmy hippo calf is so-o cute- another pic was a normal sized,adult male hippo-would’nt want to go swimming near him!
273 / 274 - either works, but on balance I go with 274
306 tim, at least SeanT is what he purports to be. He also researches his fictions. you on the other hand are the only quote farmer unquote in the UK who had no idea about the IHT exemption until you were told about it on this forum.
Got your winter wheat sown yet? up to date with the IACS forms? glad to hear it.
322 Deflating Eric Pickles could have serious Health and Safety issues!
325. “It’s the reserved powers the UK GE is all about.”
So you concede that Wee Eck (who has no influence over them) has no business being in the debate.
Fair enough.
I love the co-ordination between BBC journalists!
Ticker headline:
“Darling proposes pay freeze for estimated 750k senior civil servants”
Click on story and first line…
“Darling proposes pay freeze for estimated 40k senior civil servants…”
Farmer Tupac, Diane and NPMP - the collective - <a href=”http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J16796%2C_Rommel_mit_Soldaten_der_Legion_%22Freies_Indien%22.jpg”?Waffen SS friends…!
Farmer Tupac, Diane and NPMP - the collective - Waffen SS friends…!
Link fixed!
Has anyone noticed how all The most annoying posters have a single name, lower case letters.
tim
coldstone
oldnat
and now diane
I’m sure there were others back in the day as well.
This pay freeze lark just shows how pathetic the thinking has got in the bunker. Do they really think anybody will well of them for coming up with it tonight?
Most people will have memories of brown’s disgraceful attempt to use the troops 2 years ago and this little stunt just brings it front of mind again.
No doubt there will be more childish announcements coming out over the rest of the week
330, I hope you aren’t questioning my scientific credentials in the fields of electrical and genetic engineering, otherwise I might have to demonstrate my particular expertise in colossal ballistics and explosives
let’s freeze labour!
329. “306 tim, at least SeanT is what he purports to be. He also researches his fictions. you on the other hand are the only quote farmer unquote in the UK who had no idea about the IHT exemption until you were told about it on this forum.”
Yesterday I asked tim if he did anything to reduce the tax he paid, did I miss a reply?
335 - Hey!
335 hate that sort of thing
@337: A launch! A launch! *runs to cannon viewing gallery*
340/341
Annoying posters have such names
People with such names aren’t necessarily annoying posters
(But I’ve got my eye on you…)
I always assumed that lower case names just meant that people weren’t using their real name.
343 If Jon C is a Cardiff fan,you’ll be launching an ICBM at him over the web!
336. Did you not see Bungling Bob and “the first UK Home Secretary ever” visiting the troops today?
AJ4PM gathering pace…
335. It’s the easiest way to spot a post from the bunker. Other than Tim they seem to rotate the names. We’ve had Andrew and there is Dez and I think we’ve had a Simon and of course Ermintrude and who can forget the one and only Gabble and last but not least that Pb.com institution Roger………..
345 lower case… sec modern, upper case… Eton.!
348, I remember gabble. Wasn’t the soldier of truth an early casualty of Brown’s premiership?
335/348 - Careful, I’m sure OGH’s son posts as “robert”
346
can you name me a team who are in a relegation position at the moment?
351
tim = coldstone + gabble
I don’t really think it’s edifying trying to claim so and so works for which party.
There are plenty of partisans on all sides; I doubt we all work for a political party.
352 Labour?? Lib Dems?
Oh I’m so bored - this is the biggest who-ha in ages but I can’t get excited about it.
All suggestions welcome
348 - I don’t think Roger is from the bunker; I just think he needs help.
352 NOT for long,and you know it!
348 - I rather like Roger, especially his oscar predictions.
Support for Obamacare has plummeted five points in the last two weeks to only 33%, vs. 53% opposed:
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/63536477.html#
Whether the Dems can bring an end to their circular firing squad and actually enact something remains to be seen, but it will be a first in modern American political history, uness they can turn public opinion around, in that they will be enacting a major systemic reform in the face of widespread public opposition.
316 Marxists use the memory of the Nazis as a political weapon in various areas of contemporary politics - particularly immigration and the EU. The potency of this weapon requires things like
http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/unknown.html
to be kept swept under the carpet as much as possible.
I think it’s fair to point that out whenever marxists are trying to claim the moral high ground.
West Ham
Portsmouth
Ipswich
Reading
tim
Whats the odd one out?
351. But we know who robert is and he has a special position being OGH’s son!
362 tim - he’s a loser all the time!!!!
331 Scott P
Don’t be silly. The reserved powers affect everyone in Scotland, Wales and NI, as well as England. Your parochial issues, however, are nothing to do with us, although we hear you constantly whine about them because they are concatenated with UK issues.
As long as we are in the UK, the voters in the constituencies outwith England are entitled to the protection of Section 3 of the ECHR, which you seek to deny us.
No one is asking England to listen to the views of SNP, Plaid or any of the NI parties on any political issue. In the same way, we shouldn’t have to listen to squabbling between the Official Tories and the Provos on English matters.
357. I know - just a wind up Roger honest…….
Oh look, Darling’s story is top of the BBC website agenda on day 1 of the Tory conference.
As I said, I hope Major fires a broadside into Labour again.
321. Well, yes. I do have to admit to a certain bias against the Waffen SS.
360. I’m not surprised. It’s a stupid, coercive plan that manages to offend all sides. I don’t know how they did it, but it’s done.
367 - That would be fun.
367 - As I pointed out upthread, ITV relegated the Conference to third or fourth item.
Saving the Tories embarrassment?
368, would you be so outraged if they’d been in the Red Army fighting the Waffen SS?
Also, was Pickles right when he said Attlee recognised that the Latvians hadn’t fought out of any loyalty to the Nazi cause?
335 JonC
Thanks for the compliment!
LOL, Labour really are desperate arent they. What happened to the spend spend spend attitude of just a few months ago? Now suddenly they are falling over themselves to accommodate conservative ideas and be the party of responsibility/austerity! Even going after the PSPs (public sector parasites) of all things! Who would have thought it!! LOL, lovely. Lovely YouGov today too. Things can only get better!!
Right chaps, I’m off for the night. Look forward to Newsnight
Why is anyone talking about 50 yrs old micro politics when we’re in 3 TRILLION of debt?
Labour are dispicable - they just can’t help resorting to dirty tricks! http://tinyurl.com/y99rjhu
375 - Because we got bored with your kittens?
365. oldnat
So, having conceded that Wee Eck has no place in a debate on reserved powers, your new argument is that the Scots should be denied the chance to listen to a debate on anything not explicitly Scottish. Europe? The Middle East?
“we shouldn’t have to listen to squabbling “
La, la, la, la. I can’t hear you!!
As you say, “Don’t be silly.”
If you’re lurking, come out and say what you think….
377 - I’ll know when PB readers create my own BINGO card.
How could I forget gabble? Or was he Gabble..?
I too am bored
380 - Daily Mail.Cats.
House.
Thats all.
Oh this will lift the boredom, and it’s beyond satire, Polly’s latest missive
“The only way the Tories can please everyone: cheat”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/05/tories-please-everyone-cheat
Nats one and all. Enjoyed the banter but I must away. Cheers.
375 “Why is anyone talking about 50 yrs old micro politics when we’re in 3 TRILLION of debt?”
Because left = morally good and right = morally bad has been part of the foundation of western politics since the war or at least since the 60s.
It does get boring though.
More from the Populus poll but still no headline figures (Peter Riddell - what a tease…)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6862325.ece
OK bored people here ar some posts from yesterday’s guardian complaining bitterly about the beeb’s RIGHT wing bias. they seem serious about it. One view is if the beeb is annoying everyone it’s doing something right. another is that it’s just random and directionless.Is it true toenails was president of the young conservatives, does anyone know?
fghj The top headline on the BBC right now is “Tories to get Britain working.” Do they not even pretend to be impartial any more?
sidc On my screen it says “Tories ‘to get Britain working’” - a different thing entirely.
fghj The use of safety quotes makes little difference. Had the headline been about Labour it would have said “Brown ‘can’t fix broken Britain’”
fghj Did you know that the BBC’s political editor Nick Robinson used to be the chairman of Young Conservatives? Just imagine the hysteria from the Daily Mail if they employed a former leader of the Young Socialists.
rw Has the BBC become a Tory stronghold? That’s odd, I always thought the Beeb was a bastion of pinkos which couldn’t hide its glee when Nu Lab got in - until of course the Corp forgot to align its news reporting to its loyalties during Kellygate, and had all manna of vengeful Hell wrought upon it by Campbell and friends.
Maybe that was the turning point.
fghj You’ve obviously spent too much time listening to the rabid right wing press. The BBC has aleays been anti-Labour, but now they don’t even try to hide it because they think Labours poor poll figure give them the green light to stick the knife in.
383 She appears to eb saying that Cameron isn’t playing fair by not being really really nasty like Tories should be….
383 - I fear for Polly I really do, I mean she is going to explode in a shower of sparks like a malfunctioning fembot when Cameron wins the election isn’t she.
371. I’m not going to try and travel back in time to psychoanalyze the exact loyalties of a Latvian Waffen SS soldier. I think I can stick with this point: if you have a choice between aligning yourself with people who have some murky Nazi sympathies and aligning yourself with people who are pretty much Nazi-free, DON’T GO FOR THE NAZIS.
Whether Alistair Darling was a Communist 30 years ago has no bearing on this matter.
Anyway, there are probably more interesting things to discuss about Alistair Darling and his pals than whether they were Communists. Where is the gossip?
389 - James,Polly exploding? You make that sound like a bad thing
388 - Pretty accurate summing up of the article there.
306. Jesus, tim, that’s weak, and incoherent - and you were on quite decent form earlier on.
In the absence of a clear denial from you I’m starting to wonder if some Labour communists were indeed members of Khmer-Rouge-SUPPORTING parties and groupuscules - and not just succourers.
Either way they were filthy totalitarians and commies at a time when their ideological bedfellows in Phnom Penh were hitting children against trees.
Enough said.
391 - Well what would we do for a laugh if she did?
Good evening bored PBers.
What a dull thread, no humour and endless repartition of the bots favourite me-me’s.
Thank God TSE has provided the latest out-pouring from Polly…she really is my favourite dishonest, economically challenge, hypocritical Champagne Socialist after Roger.
O/T For anyone who fancies Sea The Stars to win the Breeders Cup Classic on 7 Nov.(I don’t think he’ll run), be sure to take the 2.85/1 net of 5% comm’n currently available with Betfair, compared with best bookies’ odds of just evens. An amazing discrepancy for such a huge event.
387 - the Guardian weirdos have had everything go their way for so long they have no idea how to behave when their ideas/methods/party is challenged. Much like Labour itself.
394 - I think Simon Heffer could fill the role of Polly. No matter what Cameron does, you know the Ginger Whinger will say Cameron is evil/not a Tory.
Forty-six percent (46%) of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s up five points from a week ago. Rasmussen today.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform
390 “Anyway, there are probably more interesting things to discuss about Alistair Darling and his pals than whether they were Communists. Where is the gossip?”
Well that’s thing isn’t it - the weird kinky sex is all with the right wing.
I’m so glad I read Polly’s articles, she can spot stuff no one else can, especially we in the Tory Party
“The Europe debacle springs from this inability to square a circle: Cameron wants to keep his party’s fevered referendum hopes alive, yet he knows reopening a signed Lisbon treaty is impossible. To be prime ministerial, he should face his party down and tell them the facts on Europe”
Debacle? Debacle???????
397 - Quite, it is going to be fun watching Labour and the wider left and their reaction to defeat. You can see the set up that they are making that somehow the economic mess makes a leftwing government more necessary. When that analysis gets rejected by the electorate then I fear the left will have an 80’s style collective nervous breakdown.
378 Scott P
I’ve misjudged you. You are actually as dense as you appear!
The UK election is about UK issues, not English or Scottish ones. (The fact that that you have a coincident English election which confuses the issue for you is one that you really don’t understand!)
“Cameron wants to keep his party’s fevered referendum hopes alive, yet he knows reopening a signed Lisbon treaty is impossible.”
That’s why he hasn’t said that there will be no referendum post-ratification.
Oh, hang on, he has…..
IMF director Dominique Strauss-Kahn has said that developed economies are about a year away from peak unemployment.
400. Hasn’t been a good attack of Hutchence/Milligan syndrome for a while now.
390. As Dan Hannan explained in his Telegraph blog, there are several racist parties, brutally homophobic and all in the EPP. If that’s the criteria the ECR has less undesirables. So you agree with the ECR being better than the EPP.
And come to that the EU is totalitarian, and could start wars without democratic accountability. Who are the real NAZIs? The democrats or the NAZI-accusing people like Milliband determined to destroy democracy in Europe, as he gets his grubby little hands on more power as each day goes by?
Talking of unsavoury EU links, and to spread the dirt around a little, it’s interesting to note that the SNP and Plaid Cymru are in an EU group which also includes Daniel Cohn Bendit MEP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Cohn-Bendit
A one time student revolutionary, Cohn Bendit has been an apologist for Maoism and the Khmer Rouge. He has also admitted to sexual contact with children, and was once a leader in a party which wanted to decriminalise homosexual pedophilia.
Moreover, he has also been accused of sheltering German terrorists and only escaped prosecution because of his EU parliamentary privelige.
In recent years this Maoist libertarian has become - quelle surprise - an ardent europhile, famously stating:
“that the countries who would vote No to the Constitution should be compelled to hold a second referendum, and in case of a second No, should be expelled from the European Union.”
I presume David Miliband is right now preparing a denunciation of the SNP and Plaid for allying themselves with this kiddie-fiddling baby-bashing anarcho-communist Federalissimo.
386 Seems both the Times & the BBC (on Newsnight reportedly) have had polls to show that people are voting against Labour rather than voting for the Conservatives (though significant differences in the percentages) . Interesting though in the Times case that they split their sample Con v Lab and Brown v Cameron, which shows the impact of personality over policy with Cameron doing much better than his party though Gordon not much worse than his. That’s not good news for Labour as it indicates the dislike isn’t for James Gordon Brown but the Party.
Seeing the results: Cameron significantly stronger as a brand than his party just shows why Labour & Lib Dems are so keen to try to trash his brand with Bullingdon, inherited wealth etc.
“the weird kinky sex is all with the right wing.
by MrJones October 5th, 2009 at 9:48 pm”
Not true! see my Cohn Bendit comment, just upthread.
I am bored!!
409 - The problem is that majoring on inherited wealth is not a good idea. It just reminds middle Britain that they would quite like to have inherited some wealth and are determined that their progeny will inherit some wealth.
115 - tim, Henley Rowing Club is relatively blue collar.
Hopefully if the Tories do win there’ll be regular sex scandals educating us all on exotic practises we never knew existed. It should help relieve the monotony of 20 years of cold porridge and mass unemployment.
348. For shame, you’ve forgotten darmstadt and major william martin.
409 - did anyone hear the Week in Westminster profile on Cameron?
411. How can you be bored by Daniel Cohn-Bendit-up-toddlers, the SNP’s favourite European ally?
He may be a loathsome leftie europhile pervert, but he’s not boring.
410 Yeah i meant the good kind of weird kinky sex - not kids.
418 - Is there a good kind of weird kinky sex?
419 - Yes.
408. The EU is legalising paedophilia across Europe
SEE HERE.
352 “can you name me a team who are in a relegation position at the moment?”
Labour?
Bye Gordon
Bye Misses (my hero) Gordon
Bye scroungers on benefit
Hello to the new order.
I just lurve the death of this scabby, festering, putrescent Govt. They will look in anger.
419. Well i wouldn’t know myself of course.. I was mostly meaning the sort of thing that would brighten a sunday morning with the NOTW.
418. Bestiality?
390
Diane, from Wikipedia
The war in the Baltics was messy and the locals faced two almost equally unpleasant choices. The fact that within 5 years of the end of the war the US DPs’ Commission was prepared to say that the Latvian SS were “not a movement hostile to the Government of the United States” shows that they have to be treated differently from other Waffen SS formations such as Das Reich (responsible for Oradour).
Stalin might have been our enemy’s enemy, (after 1941, before that he was happy to divide the spoils with Adolf) but he was only marginally the second most unpleasant world ruler of the 20th Century.
Back in anger!!
Speaking of kinky stuff, has anyone read Mark Oaten’s autobiography (coffee table edition)?
419. 3-way public frottage with two greased Lithuanian eunuchs?
tonight’s Newsnight should be interesting
428 - No, i thought it would be full of smears.
408. From a German Government free publication distributed free to parents by the million every year -
Fathers do not devote enough attention to the clitoris and vagina of their daughters. Their caresses too seldom pertain to these regions, while this is the only way the girls can develop a sense of pride in their sex,” reads the booklet regarding 1-3 year olds.
For full story click the link on 421.
428. I heard it was sh*t.
Is the ‘relegation position’ part of good weird kinky sex?
429 - You’ve led a sheltered life.
“diane, would it be a problem if they were remembering their kinfolk’s sacrifice if they had fought with the Luftwaffe against the Soviets? Or is it only a problem because they fought with the scary Waffen SS?”
No, diane would rather that they’d been commemorating brave Red Army soldiers, murdering, robbing, and raping their way across the Baltics.
414. I’d forgotten the orange man. Then again we’ve had Ron Davies and Mark Oaten since then so this must be regarded as an area with significant cross-party support.
425 I was thinking more along the lines of comedy value - chelsea strips and custard or something like that.
426 The link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts#Estonia_and_Latvia, I seem to have c0cked up my href tag.
To tie all the threads neatly together - Europe, pedophilia, the weather, where I am in France, haters-of-the-bourgeoisie - which famous artist once wrote in a letter to a friend:
“I am dreaming of hairless c**ts under cloudless skies”
I offered a clue earlier on today. And before anyone answers, it’s not Polanski. Or Tom Knox.
Er, we are past the lagershed back in England, aren’t we?
Oh dear!
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23752409-cameron-fails-to-stop-growing-divisions-over-europe-treaty.do
“Cabinet minister in orange hot-pants and bath full of melted marshmallow shock!”
432 That is SICK.
431/433 – Well thanks a lot guys; guess I’ll cross that one off the list of wedding anniversary gifts for the wife then.
440 - Journalistic hyperbole.
Personally my favourite sex scandal of recent times was John Prescott’s affair.
The mind boggles. And I can never eat a chipolata ever again
To neatly tie all the treads together - Europe, the weather, where I am in France, kiddie-fiddling, haters of the bourgeoisie, etc - which famous artist once wrote in a letter to a friend:
“I am dreaming of hairless c**ts under cloudless skies”.
Clue: it’s not Polanski. Or Tom Knox. I dropped a hefty hint earlier today.
To neatly tie all the treads together - Europe, the weather, where I am in France, k1ddie-f1ddl1ng, haters of the bourgeoisie, etc - which famous artist once wrote in a letter to a friend:
“I am dreaming of hairless c***s under cloudless skies”.
Clue: it’s not Polanski. Or Tom Knox. I dropped a hefty hint earlier today.
445 Oh la la!
Tracey Temple is a novel interweb subject - a no one who became a someone.
440. [Yawn] Paper owned by former KGB agent ramps non-story about Conservatives. Now there is a surprise.
426- Any warm feelings toward the Soviets as “allies” are entirely misplaced. Not only were they Adolf’s friends before they were our friends (and it was Adolf who broke off that friendship), but the Soviets were happy to supply the Nazis with oil and other raw materials to fuel his war effort until Operation Barbarossa abruptly changed the situation. Further, the Soviets even threatened to join the war on the side of the Nazis if the French and British didn’t come to peace terms with Hitler immediately after the demise of Poland (it turned out to be an idle threat, but it was still a threat). The Soviets were never for anybody but the Soviets. They would have done nothing had Hitler managed to successfully invade and occupy Britain in 1940/41. They were never, ever our friends.
446 - I know (I think)
Gustave Flaubert?
From an ergonomic and engineering point of view the Prescott affair was definitely boggling.
Tories proposing increasing state retirement age to 66 by 2016. I sense this will be a major turn off for large number of older voters - a group that we know will turn out in numbers at the GE. I am very surprised that they have gone for this option given that there is very limited public spending benefit in the short-medium term.
So let’s see after Cameron posing for the Sun after they ‘came out’, the Labour revenge is to spin a line on a pay freeze for 750,000 people..
It must be nice for those affected to be used as pawns in the election game? It also seems an abuse of power by those in Government too.
But, I’m a herd member so I’m too biased to appreciate the moral high-ground Labour are now on.
446 Gustave Flaubert. Although in his defence, you can shave ‘em (although personally I think they are cuter when fluffy).
449 ‘Tis a pity we didn’t try harder to stab them in the back at the end of the war.
451 - The bit that boggled me most was the fact I wondered what sort of faces he pulled at the climax of his cheating.
I’m suprised Tracy Temple isn’t need a lifetime of therapy
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/prescott-face-415×560.jpg
453 - I don’t think that we need worry about the altitude of the ground they occupy when it is clearly saturated and glutinous.
450. Bingo! Got it in one. Did you read the recent biography which quoted the letter?
A startling line. Flaubert was a very strange man. And a brilliant writer. I loved the bit where he says he can’t ever fall in love because the mental image of himself having an orgasm with someone he loves is so hilariously absurd and farcical it undermines any chance of serious emotion.
456 - You’re assuming that she saw his face.
458 - I dont think it was a recent book, the one I read was from in 2002 I think.
I just remember it, because at the time, an ex and I discussed was he talking about young girls, or ahem, shaved adult ones.
449 - Absolutely correct. It is also absolutely correct, nevertheless, to say that the war in Europe was won by the efforts of the USSR. A very uncomfortable truth.
The most staggering statistic to me about the Red Army’s brutality is that it has been estimated that 100,000 rapes took place in Berlin in the last two weeks of the war.
It is delightful to read threads like this and see the desperation and worry is so strong in people like tim that he needs to post his delusional rubbish 50 times a day. It means things are on the right path.
The something-for-nothing brigade are on their way out and they know it. More people are starting to reject the politics of envy, hatred, and something for nothing, and are starting to embrace the idea of personal responsibility.
More people are starting to realise their problems are not everyone elses fault. And more people are starting to realise a few hundred idiots in Westminster cannot do anything but make it worse. Government creates poverty. It does not alleviate it. More government = more poverty.
For those still struggling with these concepts, I suggest you get therapy. Try to figure out why you cant admit and accept responsibility for your own situation. This inability is a sign of desperate insecurity and low self esteem. See a psychologist and have them help you understand why you are so bitter. Why you focus on what everyone else has got, instead of just getting on with your own lives. Get to the bottom of these deep seated issues.
Wasting time mindlessly hating successful people will only prolong your pain. Youll never get anywhere. Youll die angry. (People like tim will still be posting here from his death bed.) Figure out why youd rather inflict left wing, poverty inducing policies on the entire population than see a single person with “more” than you. If you get to the bottom of these issues of yours your lives will be transformed.
Might as well start now. May is not far off. Good luck.
i hope she never saw that face.
459 - Yes you’re right. I’m assuming he never went on to… I’ll stop before I finish that sentence.
452 It’s already 67 for me.
Hannan on the euro row
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100012521/euro-row-what-euro-row/
“Journalistic hyperbole.”
I’ll say-Rifkind’s comments were made on Saturday.
460. That’s the one. Recent-ish.
I fear the author of Madame Bovary was talking about youngsters not uber-Brazilians.
464 - Never mind her, I think I need therapy now.
468 - That’s the conclusion I came too.
469 - Sorry
390 Diana is either idiot, evil or a sympathiser of Genocidal Communism.
if you have a choice between aligning yourself with people who have some murky Genocidal Communist sympathies and aligning yourself with people who are pretty much Genocidal Communist-free, DON’T GO FOR THE GENOCIDAL COMMUNISTS
Especially if you have watched children, family and friends murdered by Genocidal Communists.
461- Yes, we needed them and they needed us. We made common cause with the Devil out of necessity, but the Devil is still the Devil. Here’s one to consider: hypothetically speaking, if it had been the Soviet Union that had threatened the existence of Poland, France and the UK, would the West have made common cause with the Nazis to stave off certain defeat?
408. Cohn-Bendit is a nasty piece of work. He was one of the delegation that hectored Vaclav Klaus in the now famous meeting…
462 People like Tim, Roger, Coldstone, Nick Palmer, will always be with us.
The best way to deal with them is ignore them, isolate them and get their tax funding cut off.
Not sure why I had a post trashed but trying again
http://dizzythinks.net/2009/10/hague-gives-brown-list.html
A wonderful list from Dizzy on labour failings ooops achievments
Small wonder that the Conservative Conference has a lowly place in the news rankings.
What have they said or done that was newsworthy? Nothing yet.
Here on PBC, Plato’s cats are more interesting than the Conservative Conference. And so they get more mentions.
474 More people need to know about the likes of Cohn-Bendit.
The Sun perhaps could do a special on him and how British taxes go towards funding him and his Political Group,
Anthony Wells on the new Populus poll (according to Wells there are no voting intentions):
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2299
Doh they could have said…….
I’ve just watched the ITN report on ‘Bungling Bob’ Ainsworth visiting Afghanistan over the weekend. It’s interesting to see that he’s so incompetent and out of his depth, that Alan Johnson was sent out with him to babysit and make sure that nothing untoward happened.
re bunglin’ Bob, WTF was he thinking about asking the EOD SSGT what he really needed at the “chalkface”, was he deliberately trying to be insulting or is he just really that incompetent?
477 - NI tax cut, for starters. You might have heard about it before Labour started teabagging your facial orifices.
478. Indeed so. The kidde-fiddlin’, terrorist-hidin’, Mao-supportin’, Khmer Rouge kissin’, Daniel Coun Bandit is actually the CO PRESIDENT of the EU group which the SNP and Plaid have joined. He is one of their leaders in Europe.
Now if you want a dodgy European connexion, a confessed pedophile ex-communist revolutionary as a leader seems pretty out there.
477. What were you expecting Curious more ‘Savage Cuts’ per chance or more Mansion taxes?
465 I guess that you are still in your 40s, whereas this proposal will impact those in their late 50s for whom retirement is/was a much closer prospect.
Just heard the World Tonight on R4. So desperate were the BBC to run on ’splits over Europe’ that they were reduced to spending most of their piece on the Tory Conference on an interview with people outside the conference - and this on a day when there were several major policy announcements. But of course, the BBC want to run on the ‘Tories have no policies, they are split over Europe’ themes.
I sometimes think it will be a miracle if Cameron manages to overcome the level of bias in the state-funded media. It is by miles the most hostile and biased treatment of an opposition party I have seen in my lifetime.
But I think Cameron, Osborne and Coulson are up to the task.
Re the Pension increase, it’s the right thing to do, however, Sir Humphrey might describe it as “courageuos”
Iain Martin at his WSJ blog - Top that one, George
“PS Darling’s timing is pretty much perfect for such a hit on the Tories. In terms of conference etiquette it stands a chance of ruining the shadow chancellor’s evening. The news landed just as Osborne was probably settling down for dinner with a national newspaper and preparing for a night of popping into parties and being introduced as the next chancellor. Now one suspects he and his team will have to burn the midnight oil and do a little reworking of his text for tomorrow instead.”
Is it just me, or does this smack of sheer and utter desperation?
488 - Paxo says Labour are hijacking the Tory conference. I dont think the media are buying it.
487. ‘Courageous’ - You think Sir Humphrey would have thought it was that bad an idea do you?
Do we have any good SUN contacts on PBC? Is David Roe still juiced in?
This story is shocking. The British people would be shocked that the SNP and PC have such a person as a leader. When they find out they actually fund him with their taxes, they would be apoplectic.
Though newsnight are running on the Tory euro splits, and the vox pop saying the Tories are a con, and once they win the election they’ll eat babies.
483. As I try to point out, paedophilia is approved by the EU and will be legalised. Cohn-Bendit is allowed to sit as an MEP despite being a known paedophile because many of them are known paedophiles. It is not thought of as a crime any more. In fact, as the German government explains, it is quite normal to fiddle with the genitalia of children. In fact it is remiss not to do so.
Cases like Madeleine McCann and Marc Dutroux get covered up, as the child sex industry is huge in Europe.
British people have no idea.
Bob McDonnell maintains a double-digit lead over Creigh Deeds in the Virginia governor’s race, with less than a month to go:
http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/10/05/va-gov-poll-deeds-gains-still-trails/
Deeds is running out of options and looking flat, but it’s not over yet. Meanwhile, in New Jersey, it’s still very much an open race.
486,totally agree,listened to radio 5 this morning with victoria(I hate the tories)Derbyshire,she’s a nice example of the anti tory bias.
489 Christina - Fear not. Osborne will turn that round.
Repeat of another post upthread, but so far the Labour freeze of public sector pay has gone from:
A freeze of public sector pay (Glen Oglaza, Sky News, 9.00)
to
A freeze for 40,000 senior public servants (Glen Oglaza, Sky News, 9.30)
to
A pay rise for all but 40,000 senior public servants (Glen Oglaza, Sky News, 10.00).
One thought that crossed my mind was whether to train as a politicial reporter, as the current incumbents (Toenails, Andrew Marr, James Naughty, Glen Oglaza, Naill Paterson, Joey Jones, Victoria Derbyshire) will all be out on their ear come next June if the BBC or Sky want an interview from PM Cameron.
The only reporter coming across with a balanced view is Adam Boulton. Having said that, he is the only one who has displayed any brain cells. I recokno my cactus has more brain cells than Derbyshire, Marr and Jones put together.
“No more boom and bust”
“tim = chump”
481 Got it one!
497 - Keep your cactus well hidden, Nick Clegg’s about.
491. It’s more of a classic Daily Mail story: the communist German pedophile accused of terrorism who runs the SNP in Europe; the monster WE pay for with our taxes.
Perfect Daily Mail two pager.
But it needs a news “peg”. The Europe elections would have been perfect. Hm. Shall think!
490 - I think he’d consider a vote loser.
498) even possibly got it in one
Perhaps someone should pass the Cohn-Bendit story on to Drudge.
495 spooky - two people in the world thinking independently about Victoria Derbyshire at the same time (excluding the dim one herself).
483 Odd isn’t it that the leader of the German Greens, the much esteemed ex Vice Chancellor of Germany and ex Foreign Secretary, Joschka Fischer and the Franco-German Cohn-Bendit. leader of the French Greens both have pasts in violent politics. Fischer’s associations with groups associated with Baader Meinhof have of course been forgiven and the use of his car in a murder (”I gave it to them to have its engine looked at, so surprised to find they had used it to car was used to carry stolen weapons”).
Then people wonder why some have reservations about Green politics..
Burning wooly cactus and belonging to a posh drinking club aren’t even close - at least in old days some Labour MPs & Trade Union leaders used to betray the country.
499 My cactus is being headhunted by Gordon Brown as he is struggling to find someone / something he can talk to without them turning off 3 words in.
There is talk the cactus could be in line to replace tim, however the cactus thinks he is overqualified.
Theresa May struggled with the detail of the proposed change to retirement age on Newsnight, not least its impact on the equalisation of retirement ages for men and women. Paxo gets her to concede that the policy will hit the poorest the most. Seems that financial savings has been the main driver with little thought as to the wider implications.
505. I write for the Daily Mail occasionally. It is, as I say, an ideal story for them - child molesting lefty eurocrats leading the SNP on our money! - it just needs the right timeslot.
I will drop them a line.
507,may is useless,glad she kept quiet on QT the other night.
Boris on Newsnight now
I know, I know - it’s an easy target. But the comments in response to Polly’s latest farrago are, as ever, hilarious. My favourite, from ‘Natacha’ at 8.25 pm:
You could also add the removal of Employers’ NI contributions for new businesses. This will only mean that existing businesses will face unfair, state-subsidised competition. Anyone who runs a small business right now is likely to be very unhappy indeed.
Watch out for all those angry small business owners picketing the Tory conference asking for a reversal of this extremely sensible reduction of the tax on employment.
508 If true, it needs to be said.
I’d love to know why Europe has suddenly become so important that, from not being mentioned at all with the other two parties’ conferences, it’s the only thing the media are going on about now, even as the Tories talk about a myriad of other things.
508.
Why stop at Cohn Bendit ?
The EU Paedophilia story needs exploding in total.
Please use the links on my blog - The EU Is Legalising Paedophilia”.
“This will only mean that existing businesses will face unfair, state-subsidised competition. ”
There are plenty of other state caused distortions. When business are closing down, you need to do something to lower barriers to entry to encourage new ones to set up.
Boris doing a storming performance on Newsnight !!
I see Labour are respecting the Party Conference Convention, making a big announcement or is that re-announcement. Are they going to do that every day this week?
513 i would like to know that as well - nothing since 2005 and now all of a sudden its the most important thing since sliced bread.
Joschka Fischer, from Wiki:
“Fischer was a leader in several street battles fought by the radical Putzgruppe (literally “cleaning squad”, with the first syllable being interpreted as an acronym for Proletarische Union für Terror und Zerstörung, “Proletarian Union for Terror and Destruction”) which physically attacked a number of police officers”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joschka_Fischer
Another charming europhile.
Tapestry, dude. I enjoy your posts immensely.
But, I’m not sure a German leaflet has *anything* to do with the EU. The link on your blog has “Germany and EU to legalise peadophilia”, but then only ever mentions “subsidiary of the German government’s Ministry for Family Affairs”, and not the EU at all.
Now, the wonderful document can be found here - http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/587ba2826ef77905.pdf - and surprise, surpise, appears to have nothing to do with the EU at all.
My views about the EU are well know. I am a healthy sceptic of political integration, but recognises there have been free trade benefits, in particular regarding issues such as the Single European Passport for financial services.
But why do you post patent nonsense. This leaflet has NOTHING at all to do with the EU.
513,true,why did’nt the media go after labour and the lib dems for not giving a vote on the lisbon treaty.
Paxo being skewered!
Boris going medieval on Paxo. Loving this.
“The British people would be shocked that the SNP and PC have such a person as a leader. When they find out they actually fund him with their taxes, they would be apoplectic.”
As opposed to when we fund the offices of such ex-terrorists like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness?
500 SeanT - Glasgow NE would be a good peg, especially if you pair it with one of the equally colourful figures in the group Labour is affiliated to.
“The choice for Glasgow voters..”
(Not that I support this kind of low Miliband-style politics, of course.)
Boris for PM - what a performance
Paxman Paxmanned!
paxo has decided to be twxt - shame a i sort of respected him
GO ON BORIS
Hah! Paxo gives up!
wow
Boris reckons the GE is in May.
That was quite funny. Well done Boris, I think he managed to beat Paxo!
Boris on EXCELLENT form!
10 out of 10
518. Most journalists are headstrong, ambitious, and somewhat shallow people with short attention spans.
Ergo, they all saw the close proximity of the Irish referendum result with the Tory Conference and they all thought: Story! Easy! Gotta be! Conservative Eurosplits!
The fact that so far the Conference has largely failed to adhere to their ordained narrative - the splits are tiny, almost non existent - has not wholly dawned on them yet, but it will.
However this is NOT a conspiracy against the Tories, it is just the way journalists think and work.
Just got in, what is all this about Boris gone mental on Newsnight?
OMG Paxo gives up and gives Boris a free pass for a Camo puff piece, lol
Paxman is not the man he once was
Boris was sailing close to the wind on Lisbon again though!
Boris absolutely hammered Paxo, too funny.
Boris on Newsnight! Spectacular! Magnificent!! Mad as a moose in spats, but well done to him for sticking one on Paxo.
535 Performance of the decade from Boris - Paxman gave up and just gave Boris free reign to say whatever he wanted to camera.
Top boy.
Boris - grows and grows in my estimation.
535 - He totally steamrollered over paxo, and at the end, paxo gave up and let Boris talk straight to the camera.
That was the single most entertaining, fantastic, absorbing and wonderful political interview/discussion I have ever seen on Newsnight. Paxo was overwhelmed by Boris’ personality.
Iplayer for this interview / Utube please!!
Bojo just so funny on Paxo, Worth watching just for him asking Paxo how much he earned!
I think Paxman recognised he’d been bested and was enjoying it himself by the end.
“526. As opposed to when we fund the offices of such ex-terrorists like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness?
by robert October 5th, 2009 at 11:07 pm”
I think if it was discovered that Adams or McGuinness were also self-confessed child molestors then yes, that would be a pretty incendiary story. It would very definitely make the papers.
SeanT: spot on. There are no Tory Euro-splits. It’s an absurd non-story driven solely by the nearness in time of the Lisbon referendum to the Tory conference.
If there was a free vote on Lisbon tomorrow, I doubt more than three or four Tory MPs would vote for it.
Journalists, huh?
360 - Spot the outlier, and yes, you guessed it, it’s the one you posted. Fox polls are out of line with all others (apart from other partisan republican outfits).
Posting that sort of partisan rubbish is the enemy of anyone on this site who is interested in actual betting.
You need to get an understanding of the ethos of this site.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php
Sounds like one for iPlayer.
Just wondering why the BBC news website is running with Darling re-announcement of pay freeze on top public sector workers as the top story? Gordo announced that last week and the opposition parties are suppose to STFU when it was to other team having a go.
from what I can see this man is not the leader of the SNP/PC group at all - some people take everything on Wiki as gospel
http://www.e-f-a.org/home.php
I had a look and it is a different grouping - I get a feeling the EFA grouping will dump the Greens as co-partners but then lets spread the dirt around as the orignal poster said.
“Allegations of paedophilia
While Fischer was more concerned with demonstrations, Cohn-Bendit worked in the Karl-Marx-Buchhandlung bookshop and ran a kindergarten (of children between five and eight years’ old). Later in 2001 he was accused of paedophilia. This accusation was grounded on the following citation from his 1975 book Le Grand Bazar, [1]: “On several occasions certain kids would open my fly and start to stroke me. I reacted differently according to circumstances, but their desire posed a problem for me. I asked them: ‘Why don’t you play together? Why have you chosen me, and not the other kids?’ But if they insisted, I caressed them still.[2]”
On the 31 January 2001 in the Berlin newspaper [3] published open letter to Cohn-Bendit from the former German Foreign Minister, Klaus Kinkel, demanding Cohn-Bendit clarify whether there was actual physical contact with the children. The Berliner Zeitung published Cohn-Bendit’s response. He said that he was “not aware of the problem” (“das Problem nicht bewusst”). “We tried,” …”a collective discourse of a new sexual morality yet to be defined”( “in einem kollektiven Diskurs eine neue Sexualmoral zu definieren”). The reported sex scenes, were a “me-oriented self-reflection” (“ich-bezogene Selbstreflexion”). Cohn-Bendit, did not say there was no sexual contact with children. When interviewed on the 28 January 2001 by The Observer[4] Cohn-Bendit told the journalist, “I admit that what I wrote is unacceptable nowadays.”
In the 1980s the Greens experimented with various policies which would decriminalise sex with children. At its national conference in Lüdenscheid (March 1985) the Greens in North Rhine-Westphalia called for “nonviolent sexuality” between children and adults never to be subject to criminal prosecution. In 1987 the policy was “When young people have the desire for older peers outside the family, prevented either because their homosexuality is not accepted by their parents, or because they have paedophile inclinations, be it for other reasons, they must be given the opportunity to do so.” [5].”
Europe is wonderfully odd sometimes.
I have a 22 month old daughter. I still think killing people / ordering terrorist acts is worse than paedophilia.
Hit job on Tories right now on newsnight.
What a stupid piece this is, get some hardcore Labour people, only 4 of whom know who “David Osborne” is. None of these are going to vote Tory.
Only 4 people in Newsnight focus group say they recognise Osborne - and then some of them say he is Clegg.
546 In what way does that demonstrate that there is a split?
Tory policy is that there should be a free vote on Lisbon - a referendum in fact - and they are against it.
550 - rubbish, isn’t it? Look at this room of thickos we can round up to say they won’t vote Tory.
What a load of shit on newsnight……
553: ummm, you’re agreeing with me.
I say “there is no Tory Euro-split”.
You say: “in what way does that demonstrate that there is a split?”
550,the bbc have gone into over drive on they anti tory bias,tv news and radio.
- I don’t know what this piece on the BBC is about now but any adult not recognizing the leaders of the conservatives make me laugh as my girlfriends 16 year old from a council estate knows them. Especially as they seem to be able to repeat most of the labour talking points
546 I wonder what Mandelson had to give away behind the scenes in order to swing the Irish Lisbon vote being held just before the Tory conference? It was certainly enough to have to get the “Tories at war over Euro” non-story peddled in all the media…
556 OK, I appear to be guilty of spotting irony where none was intended.
Newsnight: went to to a typical labour town, ignored all the suburb people which is VITAL in northern towns… lol
Newsnight mob focus - I am not sure a bunch of scally fat freaks would positively influence anyone’s opinion.
351/352 My ladyfriend likes Nick Clegg but strangely thinks he is Cameron . She also thinks that her MP Soames is a LibDem . It is always salutary to talk with people who have little or no interest in politics .
“I wonder what Mandelson had to give away behind the scenes in order to swing the Irish Lisbon vote being held just before the Tory conference?”
Mandelson is a political mastermind. But he doesn’t have that kind of influence. We’re drifting into the realm of the Tapestry conspiracy theory here.
549. I agree terrorism and murder are *worse* than paedophilia if such comparisons are even fruitful. All are horrible, of course.
But my real point is the very very strange and unsavoury allies that ALL the main parties have in Europe. This disgusting, loathsome, ez-communist Cohn Bendit character actually leads the SNP’s group, FFS.
Lord knows what a bit of Googling could dig up in the leftier reaches of Labour’s alliance. We could start with their own communists and IRA supporters, perhaps.
This is what irks me so much about the Waffen SS crap. The Labour party hope to smear by association, but they are oh-so-vulnerable to the same attack.
Tories should do it: attack.
Labour making announcements during the Tory conference.
BBC Newsnight doing its best to get Labour relelected.
C4 (More4) running a Boris/Cameron smear on Wednesday night.
The forces of the left are having one last attempt at bringing Cammo down.
When the Tories sweep to power in May and the BBC is part-privatised, C4 fully privatised (and Jon Snow put out to pasture, I’ll be laughing at this Newsnight “sample” of “swing voters” and smiling.
Can someone tell me if during the Labour conference, the BBC had a focus group comprising of graduates, engineers and servicepersonnel?
If not, it looks like bias.
If it is bias, those responsible will be out of a job next year.
OK - as far as I am concerned the beeb should be dismantled after this crap….
New Thread Up
553.from what I can see this man is NOT the leader of the SNP/PC group at all - some people take everything on Wiki as gospel
http://www.e-f-a.org/home.php
I had a look and it is a different grouping - I get a feeling the EFA grouping MIGHT dump the Greens as co-partners but then lets spread the dirt around as the orignal poster said.
570. Channel 4 is a lot more vulnerable than the Beeb.
Auntie has a lot of support amongst the British people: ain’t she a grand old British institution, gawd bless er, three cheers for the Dimblebys, Morecambe and Wise, the Archers, it’s like the Queen Mother with extra news at ten.
So the Tories will find it difficult to do more than tinker at the edges of the BBC, perhaps putting the frighteners on them vis-a-vis the license fee.
But C4 has no wide or latent cultural support. Their 7 o’clock News is outrageously lefty and biassed. No one will weep if the whole damn thing is sold to Murdoch and turned into a British Fox to counter the BBC.
I looked up the original to check the accuracy of that translation:
“Scheide und vor allem Klitoris erfahren kaum Beachtung durch zärtliche Berührung (weder durch Vater noch Mutter) und erschweren es damit für das Mädchen, Stolz auf seine Geschlechtlichkeit zu entwickeln.”
It was not meant as an instruction for parents to sexually touch their children but it could be read that way by someone seeking to justify paedophilia. The English translation you quoted changes the meaning in several ways.
The booklet itself was quickly removed in Germany after the controversy there.
Back from first day at conference. Was at numerous fringe meetings and in main hall and chatting with many people. No mention of Europe, seriously now i say this again - no mention of Europe and no arguments. Where is this crap coming from? I assume parts of the media just decide beforehand what narrative they are going to adopt despite the facts?
575. Hamish, the EFA and Greens have their own leaderships, but as the Greens are the larger partner they supply the joint group’s co-presidents (the EFA supply a vice-president). Cohn-Bendit has been co-president for years and years with no great problem, this is just Sean being Sean.
524 My blog post quotes various sources about paedophilia in the EU, of which the German government leaflet is only one. I guess reading long links is hard work, but they are there for you to click on, if you are interested.
And of course Germany has nothing to do with the EU. Or Portugal or Belgium.
The EU is based in Brussels where the child sex industry thrives and small kids are kidnapped. See the pictures of the children missing in Belgium.
Or close your mind, if you prefer, like the EU officials who live and work there. That’s why Madeleine McCann will probably never be found. The government meaning the EU never prosecutes the criminals kidnapping the children. There’s too much money at stake, and the powerful are involved.
577. You’re easily convinced that a German government department responsible for kids, which sends out booklets like that, can so easily be regarded as safe.
The Irish referendum was undoubtedly rigged. See my blog to see the evidence from Cork.
550. I agree there are no Tory splits.
Unless you think UKIP are a Tory split, but they are hardly news.
UKIP’s credibility as a withdrawalist party is finished since they signed in with Freedom & Democracy (The Northern League plus UKIP plus a few bits) in the EP. It is a federalist grouping, not withdrawalist. UKIP MEPs like Marta Andreassen UKIP SE are also federalist.