Will this be the election’s most interesting battle-ground?
June 26th, 2009
What if an “independent” Tory fought Bercow?
One feature of the week that I’ve found shocking and unexpected has been the venom from many parts of the Tory party over the man who was elected speaker of the commons on Monday, John Bercow.
I was no fan of the Buckingham MP but I made damn sure in my betting that I was covered on a Bercow victory even getting 4/1 on him while the first round votes were being counted.
But the reaction of people like Nadine, Quentin Letts, Iain Dale, and contributors to Tory blogs has been far more antagonistic than anything I could have predicted. It’s almost been on a par with the bile that came out over Edward Heath when the former Tory PM died.
Enter therefore the ever enterprising Shadsy of Ladbrokes who never misses an opportunity to tempt punters into placing bets with the firm. Within minutes of the Bercow victory Ladbrokes was offering 4/1 that Bercow will be out as speaker before the end of 2010.
This has been followed up with a new market - on who’ll win Bercow’s Buckingham seat at the general election. The prices are John Bercow 1/8, anybody else 9/2.
I thought that the idea of a Tory response could be dismissed until I read the following by Fraser Nelson in the print edition of the Spectator.
“….on the issue of the Speaker, at least, the Conservatives are ill-inclined to accept defeat. Anger on the Conservative benches has hardly dissipated, and the initial mutterings about deposing Mr Bercow in due course are already taking shape into a more organised, discreet plan of action. Traditionally, no party fields a candidate against the Speaker in his or her seat. But now that Mr Bercow has offered himself to Labour as a willing agent to irritate his own party, might an ‘independent Conservative’ stand against him in Buckingham? ‘Don’t think we wouldn’t try to arrange something like that,’ says a shadow cabinet member…”
And if that did happen what would be the outcome. Could the sitting speaker really be ousted? I don’t think that in the grand scheme of things this would be good for the Tories.
The Tory reaction so far has been over-the-top, class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism - a possible reminder of how the “nasty party” used to be seen.
My guess is that the fuss will blow over and I for one am not tempted by the bet. But others might be.
For the record the notional 2005 Buckingham result was CON 58%: LAB 20%: LD 19%: OTH 3%
Mike Smithson
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Surely under PPERA you are not allowed to stand as “Independent “?
First?
Something wrong with the presentation there.
I wrote “Surely under PPERA you are not allowed to stand as Independent (name of another party)?
Using < in place of (.
Independent First.
Here is the link you couldn’t find
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/the-week/3715863/part_4/politics.thtml
with a touch of anti-semitism
Oh, for God’s sake.
I very much doubt that there will be an ‘independent’ Tory candidate - too much to lose politically.
On the other hand John Bercow was among the most heinous offenders in the troughing saga. I think there’s a very real chance of a true independent opposing him and winning.
What odds can you get on Joanna Lumley for MP of Buckingham? Or Esther Rantzen? If anyone like this ran they’d get long odds that would be very amusing to put a tenner on.
…oh and Mike…love the map!
Where can you get constituency maps like that?
Meanwhile, on the YouGov poll…
As before, applying my belief that half those saying “other” are actually anti-politics electors who won’t actually be voters, I get an adjusted figure of C 42, Lab 28, LD 20.
I think the anti-Bercow attitude in the Conservative Party (a) might be over-stated or exaggerated (b) will probably subside in time, and (c) certainly does not extend to ordinary Conservative voters in Buckingham. There is no big reason to assume that he won’t be a good Speaker, and the opponents he will face at the next GE will be of the usual variety. He will be re-elected with a big majority as usual.
8. Try this
http://www.election-maps.co.uk/index.jsp
When you have got through to the map, the “Show Layers” bit is useful
re 8. I got it from Bercow’s website.
He wasn’t my first choice but Bercow won by election and should now be supported. Mrs Dale and Letts are coming across as sore losers and Ladbrokes should mop up a lot of money from similar malcontents.
A philosophical farewell to Mr Jackson.
We are all Total bally waste of human space
Civilisation? You are having a laugh. I am tempted to harbour the notion that there is no such thing as whatever, if it helps.
I’d be happy to say why if anyone with half a brain asks.
Since Labour seem keen on throwing out hundreds of years of tradition and Law for a lot of things in Parliament why don’t the Tories just throw out the tradition of the speaker serving more than one Parliament. A new speaker for a new Government sounds reasonable to me but then again I would do the same with the civil service.
11 12 Thanks. I love maps - don’t know why. Always have. I read alot of military history and seem to spend more time looking at the battle maps than the historical account.
If I was a candidate I’d analyse the map of my seat down to the last street. I’d want to know absolutely as far as possible where my core vote, waverers, hostiles, opportunities and threats all were, what messages would resonate most with whom and allocate resources accordingly.
Does anyone who gets involved in canvassing know much about this? Do parties plan their effort in a structured way or just ask Fred to wander down London Road today handing out leaflets?
fwiw mike it has absolutely f**k all to do with anti-semitism, or
class. It really p*sses me off when people say this, no doubt to try and discredit the critics.
Its to do with Bercows personality, the way he’s treated
Colleagues and his chronic untrustyworthiness. NOTHING else.
And Bercow is the nasty one. This article is a bl**dy cheek.
This is today’s quote of the day from over at Samizdata:
If [UK Government] spending since 1997 had risen no faster than inflation, we would be spending a third less than we do now, and could abolish income tax, VAT, and council tax entirely.
- Eamonn Butler, writing in the Daily Telegraph on what I am relieved to discover the Adam Smith Institute has renamed Cost of Government Day.
Bloody hell! It kind of puts the huge scale of Labour’s spending binge in perspective. Can it really be true? And the genius in No.10 is promising to ramp it all up even further. Pretty soon there’s going to be fist fight between any two out of Darling, King and Brown - I just can’t work out yet who is going to hit whom.
18 “Pretty soon there’s going to be fist fight between any two out of Darling, King and Brown - I just can’t work out yet who is going to hit whom.”
Maybe they will all just punch Balls. Isn’t he supposed to have been the hidden economic genius guiding Gordon all these years?
16. The two main parties in marginal constituencies do indeed do intensive canvassing during and between elections, and have marked copies of registers to indicate who they think their supporters are. I think that the best ones have it down to a fine art, and know that a “Yes I will vote for you” of 50% translates into a “Did vote for you” of 35% (or whatever) so that they can then do efficient knocking-up operations.
20 Intersting. And do they focus more on shoring up the likely supporters or persuading the possibles? There must be some sort of mathematical approach or game theory that would give an optimal door knocking strategy. I heard somewhere that the Tories have a giant database that virtually tells them whose bell to ring - is that true?
On topic again - Bercow will surely be vulnerable to the ’sling the troughers out’ tendency. If Bell or Rantzen stodd I don’t think they are well known or popular enough to do damage. I do really believe that Lumley, post her Gurkha triumphs and given her huge genuine popularity, might just be able to pull off a sensational decapitation. What a good thing that would be and a warning to all MPs. GoJo!
19 MM …he certainly has the most punchable face in politics - so you may be right…
I think you are right- thye haven’t changed much, and are less diverse than they were under Mrs T. Hoping Labou and LDs come back strongly enough to deny them a majority. We need a change of government, but not a landslide.
They would be sensible to give Bercow time. He might just do the job well.
Writing as a Jewish person who dislikes Bercow, I really take exception to the idea that the Conservative response to Bercow has anything to do with anti-Semitism. How exactly does that explain their support for Oliver Letwin and Michael Howard? While it is true the usual anti-Semitic suspects have made an unwelcome appearance on the blogs in their coments on Bercow, particularly Guido, this does NOT represent the Conservative party. It is glaringly obvious why Bercow is disliked - he is a man who has shown no loyalty to his party and has sucked up to Brown who has cynically played politics to get up the nose of Cameron. It is as simple as that. After all your negative comments about Bercow, Mike, I think it is surprisingly disingenuous to try and revive ideas of the “nasty” party in relation to Bercow. Labour were out to be provocative in voting for Bercow and they have succeeded. I’m sure if a Conservative administration had voted in Kate Hoey or Frank Field without the support of Labour, the response would have been exactly the same. Sore feelings about Bercow, however, will blow over, particularly if he behaves in a non-partisan way.
17. Hear hear Casino - I just read your comment.
24. I should add that Frank Field was too decent to run for Speaker without the backing of his party. Bercow of course showed no such consideration. He was only too happy to be divisive in the interests of personal ambition.
Another policy announced to the media before parliament? I wonder what Bercow will say.
27. And I wonder where Labour got their ideas from? Where would they be without their Tory think tank?
If this happens it will be seen as a monumentally arrogant thing to do by all the people who don’t really understand parliament. A sort of Sheffield moment.
“class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism”
Unworthy of you Mike, For shame.
Maybe I don’t have a very well developed Oi-vey-dar, but was it really widely known that Bercow was Jewish? After all, there hadn’t been a caricature Jew/flying pigs campaign from Labour to tip me off…or maybe it is because it just doesn’t matter one little bit to me. It is not one of the prisms through which I view people.
I think the response to Bercow has zip to do with him being Jewish. That smacks of the worst kind of LibDemmery, Mike. “We have absolutely no evidence that X was a factor in Y, but X might make people dislike our opponents, so what the hell…run with it.”
Nasty.
I don’t have anything against Bercow other than his very excessive expenses.
It’s obvious he has wanted the job for a long time and the only way he was going to get it was with some Labour support. It just shows ambition and a determination to see it through.
24 - Not exactly sure how you call Guido anti-semitic, maybe those who comment are but I’ve yet to see Guido write anything.
7. Patrick. Bercow was not one of the “heinous” offenders. He claimed a lot, but it looked in the main OK. His one crime was the CGT one, where he dissembled (I cant remember whether I paid), he used the “legal advice” (my solicitor said it was OK), and then said he would cough up. It was a tiny amount.
I find myself of the view that 1) Bercow is untrustworthy 2) Does it really matter? (to the Tories that is)
Why? Because he is basically a friend of those in power*. Bercow can now do things to irritate Gordon because 1) Labour can hardly fire him now having just elected him 2) By making up with Cameron now, he lays the groundwork for the next parliamentary phase. If the Tories are clever they will bring him back on board.
Will Bercow be bad for parliament? Possibly. I doubt his commitment to reform and his rapport with the back benches. But that’s up in the air.
* And if Bercow turns out to be a truly independent thinker, whose journey from the fringes of the right to the centre left was not motivated by personal gain, we should all rejoice - especially if he then turns out to be a strong Speaker. Either way the Tories are winners.
Mike Smithson is totally off base in his criticism of Tories. The vitriol against Bercow spans old and young and the class divide in the Tory party. Tory MPs and we in the grassroots know the guy. I have read extensively the articles and opinions on Bercow and not once has there been a suggestion anti-Semitism. Indeed it was only the Conservative party that pointed out the fact that he was the first Jewish Speaker. Are you going to lay your claims of anti-Semitism at Labour and the Lib Dems who could even bring themselves to mention that fact? Of course not.
Why am I not surprised that a Lib Dem would be slinging accusations of anti-Semitism around? Standard campaigning tactic from the party who will say anything on the doorstep.
Support for Michael Howard? The chap who one notable back bencher said “there is something of the night about him”.
Surprised to see Milton Keynes on the map given the title of the thread - although the south seat could indeed be interesting given Phyllis Starkey’s 4000 majority with boundary changes and a rumoured collapse in local activity by her supporters.
On topic, it just looks like the Tories are sore winners. Some of them should grow up.
When you have Nadine and Quentin Letts on the same side, chances are it’s the wrong side.
Both nutters.
A pathetic article. The idea that the Tory party is anti-semetic shows a complete lack of judgement. I could go through the litany of those who have held high positions within the party in office or opposition but why bother stating the obvious? Suffice to say that the number is such as to support conspiracy theories of a Jewish cabal at the heart of the party rather than some kind of latent ant-semitism. Furthermore, it is beyond belief that someone engaged in the activity you are engaged in is surprised by the Tory reaction. This is precisely the scenario foreseen throughout the media and blogosphere. This comment is so ill-judged that I can only imagine it is motivated by disingenuousness. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the movement to use any and every opportunity to paint the Tories as “the nasty party” is losing its effect; I very much doubt that it is going to achieve its aim in the future and advise you to look for a new line of attack……….
“class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism”
A crass comment and unworthy from someone I previously considered as fair.
Bercow suffers from Small Man Syndrome and is a disciple of the Follow the Prevailing Wind Party, (Judas Iscariot Division).
Ain’t it funny how supporters of the supposedly liberal and progressive parties love to sling accusations at the Tory party when it is the Tory party who have delivered not only the first Jewish PM (Disraeli), the first woman PM (Thatcher) but now the first Jewish Speaker (however reluctantly). And who’s last leader was Jewish. I think it is Mike Smithson who has a problem with Jews.
Any opponent standing against John Bercow would have to be acceptable to as many voters as possible. I believe it would need to be someone better known than me, although I have previously mooted standing if nobody else will.
As for the comments that standing against the sitting Speaker breaks with tradition. This Labour government have trampled over so many traditions in the name of progress or modernity that any complaint they make is ridiculous.
UKIP have already named their candidate and if the allegations about his NF past do not stick then it will be Speaker Bercow vs UKIP.
If an Independent Conservative is also put up the chances of Bercow will only improve.
37 - Agree with that.
Dorries and Letts opposition should make people think twice.
Bercow is disliked by many in the Tory Party because he took up positions on issues such as homosexuality when most of the “modernisers” who now take the same positions as Bercow, did not have the guts to do so.
No, it’s more the case that Bercow has built up a very wide circle of enemies within the Conservative Party, over the course of 25 years. Those of us who know him best, dislike him most, which speaks books. One only has to read Anne McElvoy in last night’s Standard to realise why he is so unpopular - and she was trying to be fair to him.
I would shed no tears at all if an indpendent Conservative or UKIP knocked him out at the next election.
That said, and assuming he is re-elected, it would just look petulant to remove him as Speaker after the next election. So long as he hasn’t been wildly biased (and he must surely have enough sense to be even-handed) there will just be bigger fish to fry after the next election.
I haven’t seen any anti semitism from the Tory benches.
Now Dave has adopted all Bercows policies, those on here who think Dave is Jesus Christ, should recognise Bercow as their John the Baptist.
45 The Conservatives haven’t adopted Bercow’s politics. On the EU, Harman’s Equality Bill, public spending, employment laws, the Conservatives’ position is poles apart from Bercow’s.
However, take it from me that it’s Bercow’s appalling personality that really infuriates his colleagues.
16 - Patrick, have you seen this website?
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/
Of course it isnt the most interesting battleground at all. It will reflect nothing of real importance come a 2010 GE.
In terms of the potential for paradigm shift in a political situation I’d look at North Antrim. Proper issues, proper contest, things at stake. Same for hundreds of mainland seats.
Having said that, our host has written this artictle on the back of the pitchfork and torches brigade that posted here during the speaker election. One eye on how to keep the page views nice and high Mike..and I bet they bite on it.
The tradition, if there is one, is that Labour opposes Speakers seeking re-election who are former Conservatives, but that the Conservatives do not oppose Speakers who are former Labour MPs.
How can opposition to the Vicar of Bercow be anti-semitic?
46 - And Bercow saved you from the bigger danger of Speaker Old School Young .
You should thank Labour MPs for saving you from yourselves.
The Tory reaction so far has been over-the-top, class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism - a possible reminder of how the “nasty party” used to be seen.
Name a single Tory who has been anti-semetic about Bercow.
Only read the article not the thread. I think anti-semitism is not only untrue it’s approaching a smear. Was Howard or Letwin or Disraeli disapproved of due to religion? Funny how the Tories are only ‘anti-semitic’ about a former Thatcherite who kisses the arse of whoever is in power and has been scheming for years to become Speaker, an ambition achieved by the PLP eager to piss off Cameron.
Telegraph to release unedited expense claims from shadow cabinet. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5635145/MPs-expenses-Shadow-cabinet-claims-in-full-published-by-Telegraph.html
The real cabinet next?
47 Yes. It’s one of my Favourites.
51 Young would have been fine. He’s a gentleman.
53 I can see (following Sean T’s comments) how my reference to him as Gollum could be perceived as anti-semitic. It wasn’t though. It was simply a reference to a friend calling him The Gollum of British Politics.
“After watching him at the hustings I understood quickly how they feel. For somewhat surprisingly I found myself taking an instant dislike to Bercow and came to the view that anybody else would be better. This was not about his politics but his personality - he combines being lightweight with arrogance and just talks in platitudes. Michael Martin staying on would be preferable.”
Mike Smithson last week…
Yet today..
This week tory critics have made attacks which are class based * anti-semetic.
Has Mr Smithson been working too hard?? His once moderate views seem to be getting wilder by the day.
The accusation of anti-semitism is uncalled for, Mike.
I didn’t even know he was Jewish. I’m not interested in religion. It’s the smugness that is irritating.
58, his interview technique is certainly challenging and unorthodox
The suggestion of anti-semitism smacks of the worst kind of Liberal Democrat politics, Mike. “We have absolutely no evidence that X was a factor in Y, but suggesting X applied might make people dislike our opponents, so what the hell…run with it.”
Nasty.
It’s tricky thing isn’t it when you have a go at someone who happens to belong to a certain group. The Tories attack a Jew for reasons unrelated to his religion and there will be those who see anti-semitism and those who don’t.
I insulted Margaret Beckett the other day and was accused by Roger of sexism (she just happens to be hideous - I’m not sure if that is related to her possession of Y chromosomes). I wasn’t being sexist but don’t really get upset about the accusation.
We seem to live in age where people get all excited if you say something that others might misconstrue. Sometimes we all say things in the heat of the moment we regret later. It’s horrible feeling like you’re stepping on eggshells all the time - and very tedious.
I don’t believe OGH is an anti-semite for one moment. Probably the comment was a bit reactionary. The reaction to it seems overly energetic to me.
Can I suggest we all just calm down. It’s not that big a deal FFS. If anybody wants to get excited might I suggest the impending bankruptcy of our country is a subject much more worthy of your attentions.
On topic, rule #1 for any backbencher persuing an independent line on policy is to make sure that his or her constituency is behind them. Their constituents don’t necessarily have to agree with all they say but they do have to like and respect them.
I don’t know much about Buckingham but Bercow would be an idiot if he’d annoyed as many of his local members as he had his parliamentary colleagues. There may be many accusations that can be levelled at Bercow on grounds of ambition and inconsistancy but I don’t think him an idiot.
Besides, local parties often like to see their man (or woman) make good and there can be a pride in them being a party leader or Speaker.
This isn’t to say that there won’t be a challenge to him at the election but I don’t expect a serious one. His percentage share of the vote will probably increase. Whether he keeps his position as Speaker once the new House sits will depend more on how he carries out the role over the next year: if he does ok, he’ll stay. It would look petty and vindictive (and something of an abuse of power) to do otherwise. If he fluffs badly, expect noises of the nature of ’sadly, we were proved right’.
What a nasty little thread…
Must agree with fellow Conservatives on here Mike that the last sentence is out of order. I didn’t know he was jewish and couldn’t care less, and class hasn’t come into it.
The fact is you were spot on with your assessment a week ago. The Bradby interview showed his true colours.
On the issue of anti-semitism, Abbott made the same point last night which I was appalled at, who’s spinning this line?
49. agingjb: The tradition, if there is one, is that Labour opposes Speakers seeking re-election who are former Conservatives, but that the Conservatives do not oppose Speakers who are former Labour MPs.
I didn’t know that, but it seems to be accurate back as far as I could be arsed checking…
2005 (Glasgow North East): Spkr (Martin), SNP, Soc Lab, SSP, Scot Unionist, BNP, Ind.
2001 (Glasgow Springburn): Spkr (Martin), SNP, SSP, Scot Unionist, Ind.
1997 (West Bromwich West): Spkr (Boothroyd), Ind Lab, National Democrats.
1992: Speaker (Weatherill) retired
1987 (Croydon North East): Spkr (Weatherill), Lab, SDP.
1983: Speaker (Thomas) retired
1979 (Cardiff West): Spkr (Thomas), PC, NF.
O1974 (Wirral): Spkr (Lloyd), Lab, L.
F1974 (Wirral): Spkr (Lloyd), Lab, L.
Is Gordon Brown due to release a statement on the death of Michael Jackson?
Go on Gordon, don’t disappoint us.
51
We have come along way since the late 1980s, when Viscount Macmillan quipped that there were “more old Estonians than Old Etonians” in Mrs Thatcher’s second administration and the Conservative Party bridled at the prospect of Lord Young as its chairman.
65 I fully expect Guido to dig out a photo of Brown with Jackson and do one of his Jonah Brown posts any moment now.
65. He’ll try and latch on somehow, wonder if the Govt will try and bury some bad news today.
Greetings to all from my retirement in southern Spain. Only took me 4 months and an arm and a leg to get online - but we’ve only had 2 days of rain since I got here so you win some and lose some. Bercow is awful and will not I think be a successful speaker. But he can hardly be worse than Gorbals mick!!
65. Yokel.
No sooner asked than answered:
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/06/gordons-tribute-to-jacko.html
‘But the reaction of people like Nadine, Quentin Letts, Iain Dale, and contributors to Tory blogs has been far more antagonistic than anything I could have predicted. It’s almost been on a par with the bile that came out over Edward Heath when the former Tory PM died’.
It’s the way the Tories have always been. You’re either ‘one of us’ or you are out. It’s one of a myriad of reasons why those of us who aren’t Tories fear so much the divisiveness that a Tory government will bring.
Isn’t the being in the EU good that it allows you to settle in Spain Scampi? If only we joined Schengen. Has anyone recorded your exit from these shores?
71 The same is true of any political party.
I too didn’t realise Bercow was Jewish until this week. I just don’t think that’s had anything to do with the Tories disliking him.
I think Mike has made a (very rare) misjudgement with that comment.
71.You prefer Labour’s big-tent approach that lets in Nick Griffin…thank God we aren’t a divided nation.
73.In recent days he seems to have the lost the plot though! David Kelly murdered? Britain committing murder in Iraq?? Now, a nice smear that tim would have been proud of, really digusting.
75. Abbot said the same anti-semitic slur on This Week..
65 Gordon will probably forget to mention music or dance and eulogise Jacko’s contribution to parenting skills - and his forthright views on sex education for the young…
32. Let me make it absolutely clear - I am NOT calling Guido anti-Semitic. Very far from it. I’m a big fan. I’m referring to some unsavoury comments on his site - the usual nonsense. Nothing to do with Guido.
70. ugh!! No doubt it will feature next week as a precursor to QT. Princess Di syndrome!!
What’s the difference between Alex Fergusson and Michael Jackson?
Fergie will still be playing Giggs in August.
76. And isn’t it revealing that the very people who wheel out the ‘anti-Semitism’ slur about Bercow are the first to go nuts when any connection is made between their attitude to Israel and anti-Semitism?
Don’t want to blow my own trumpet (well, maybe I do) but I suggested this before Fraser Nelson - and if I could work out how to search for previous comments I would dig the quote out.
Actually, my thoughts were more around either UKIP or a genuine independent standing - think Bercow is a controversial enough figure that he could lose his seat without the Conservative Party’s help.
The most recent model we have for this is David Davis, who won easily - but I get the impression he was rather more well-like in Howden than Bercow is in Buckingham, and nor was Davis having to defend accusations of troughing. There aren’t many MPs today who could stand a half-decent challenge against an independent.
And I don’t think Tory opposition to Bercow is anti-semitism in any way. But no-one - on either side - likes someone crossing the floor away from them - even if it’s the most gradual floor-cross in history with a long stay in the middle.
The vitriol that some Tories have for John Bercow is extraordinary. If the Tories unofficially sponsor a candidate to run against him, it would be the clearest sign that they are not serious about wanting to win the next election. Since to date they have seemed to be serious, I put this in the category of Not Going To Happen. 1-8 seems to offer 12.5% interest free return in a maximum period of a year.
I think it’s one of Mikes more perceptive threads. I’m sure that when the election comes many voters will remember what it was about the Tories that made their defeat in 97 feel like coming out of a long dark tunnel. Cameron has done a good make-up job but that’s all it is.
69, welcome back, El Scampino
Does anyone know what has happened to URW?
Sarah Ferguson made a valiant attempt to take on Mark Thompson about his expenses on Toadie. Thompson sounded exactly like an aggrieved politician - it was all reasonable and within the rules. More evidence of BBC hypocrisy. Happy to go on (and on and on and on) about moats and duckhouses, when they weren’t even paid for by the taxpayer, but absolutely indignant when their own affairs are called to account.
80 - Too soon. The news that an outstanding entertainer has died young is very sad. He was a flawed man, no doubt, but he gave a lot of happiness to many people. Let the body go cold first.
65. Nuchas gracias guapo!
The Conservative party anti-semitic?
That’s the party of Disraeli and Howard.
The party that in the 1980s had seven Jews in the cabinet at the same time.
Perhaps Mike is just assuming that the hostility of many LibDems towards Jews exists in other parties. After all it was Mike’s party that ran Jew baiting campaigns in Blackburn and Rochdale at the last election and in local byeelections in East London this year.
Not forgetting that the resident Holocaust denyer is also a LibDem.
86. tim: Does anyone know what has happened to URW?
I presume he’s slunk off to his “exclusive” forum, as he repeatedly threatened to do.
86 - He makes a lot of money on Big Brother. I expect that he’s busy doing that.
High praise indeed Mr Smithson, Roger thinks it’s one of your more perceptive threads. Withdraw it.
86 Was wondering the same…
I’m very disappointed by Mike’s intemperate remarks re. the ill-feeling Tories have towards Bercow. Almost reminiscent of the smearbots.
Bercow is unpopular because of his unpleasant personality and history of disloyalty to his party. It has nothing whatever to do with his origins.
Roger, Antifrank and Tim’s posts are clear evidence of the nonsense unleashed when Mike has a rare lapse of judgement. It does show however the only thing they can drum up against Conservatives is a fantasy that all Conservatives are existentially ‘nasty’. It’s clear they only have their irrational prejudices to cling on to. Just goes to show how utterly ideologically bankrupt the left has become. Meanwhile our government continue to raid Conservative policy at an accelerating rate - note their sudden conversion to localism in schools.
So Nadine hates Bercow, I’m warming to the guy already.
Yeah! it don’t take long for the mask to slip, one the, ‘Nasty Party’ always the, ‘Nasty Party’
95 - Your post says a lot more about you than it does about me…
96 + 97. Oh dear - I should have added Coldstone to the list. And what does it say about me antifrank? Do spell it out.
96 Whilst, of course, the New Labour love-fest between Blair and Brown and Mandelson and Prescott and (continue ad nauseum) made them the Nice Party?
“Abbot said the same anti-semitic slur on This Week..”
Take it from me, Abbot is the last person who should be accusing others of anti-semitism.
98.Oscar are you being criticised because your name sounds Jewish?
Re. Quentin Letts, he wrote that Bercow is worse than Michael Martin. Nonsense, when Bercow can at least read out a statement while giving the impression that he understands what the words mean. There’s also clearly a split in the ‘Follow the Prevailing Wind Party’, when Bercow beat Beckett, whose flip-flopping on her party’s internal left-right spectrum makes the Vicar of Bray look a model of consistency.
I think I lost patience with Letts when he upbraided James Purnell for using a flat a in Glasgow. What pathetic snobbery.
99. Was there a love-fest between Brown and Mandelson?
I think Nadine dislikes John Bercow because of his stand on abortion. Its a free country and she is entitled to dislike him if she wants to.
The way she carries on does herself or her causes any good but that’s another story
The reaction of the Tories to Bercow isn’t very dismilar to that of Labour to, say, Kate Hoey. She’s not Jewish though, so accusations of anti-semitism can’t be made. Luckily.
101. If anyone criticises Bercow for his name then that is clearly anti-Semitic. But I haven’t seen any Conservative attack him for that reason. Is that what you’re getting at? if not - apologies for not understanding your point.
98 - That you haven’t a clue. I hold a view that some Tories’s vitrol towards John Bercow has been extraordinary. I would be quite content to provide links on this, including to the Monday night thread on here when he got elected. From that view, which you apparently do not share, you derive for me an entire worldview. That worldview has no connection with the view of the world that I actually have, but you would rather construct a fantasy than probe the reality.
My general experience is that Labour supporters are quick to label me a Tory and that Tories are quick to label me left-wing. And no, I would not categorise myself as a Lib Dem either. The idea that someone can be unaligned, floating even, makes the blind partisans’ heads explode.
104 does not do
Just supposing the Tory “Star Chamber” decided that Bercow’s expenses claims/CGT avoidance or whatever was unacceptable, and he was unfit to stand as a Conservative candidate (though of course he won’t technically be their candidate). This would then give them the green light to field an official candidate against him.
Of course, if they applied fair criteria, if Bercow is unfit to be a candidate, then so are half of their MPs.
Just to add, I too had no knowledge of Bercow’s faith. Is he practicing, or is he Jewish to the same extent that I am Catholic, i.e. born into it, but dismissed it. My concern regarding MPs and religion is those fruitcakes who think they are doing god’s bidding - by invading Iraq, for example. God will be their judge, they say - er no, I think a chap sat in the Hague might be instead.
103 I think “I love you, but I can destroy you” is what passes for it in New Labour…
105. And no-one is daft enough to suggest it’s because she’s Irish. It’s the Left who resort to smokescreens of racism and class warfare. Pathetic!
110. Perhaps it was just a ‘fest’, then.
Some people don’t like Bercow. Many of the same people felt that the election of the Speaker on nothing but political spite was a disgrace at a time when the reputation of Parliament is in the gutter. Hence the vitriol at his election.
107 From a betting perspective, the views of the unalligned are very important on here.
This is total froth. David Cameron will not permit a challenge in the name of the party and I suspect he will make it plain anyone who supports an Independent candidate will be thrown out of the tory party.
John Bercow is a Tory MP now neutralised by his new position. If he clamps down on Labour nonsense as he hinted on Wednesday he will become the “darling” of the PP.
As for the “big” news, am I the only person who doesn’t consider that the death of Michael Jackson is the biggest story in the world? I have just fired off an email of complaint to SKY who have featured not another single story since 10pm last night. Even the BBC recognised that other things are happening.
107. Well antifrank that’s a lot about you but nothing about me!
105
I think KH is just great, I think she’d have made a superb speaker. It would have been marvellous if she’d got the job, seeing as it was Martin’s treatemnt of her that ensured his downfall.
114 - I would not claim any element of typicality for myself. However, I stand by the observation that I made at 83 about this being a test of Tory seriousness. The Tories have an election to win. They should not be taking on unnecessary skirmishes of this type. If David Cameron isn’t stamping hard on this idea, he’s a much poorer leader than he has shown himself to be thus far.
Bercow being Jewish is irrelevant. The Tory party is full of Jewish people in high office. It is his arrogance which puts people off but that is not a good reason to remove him as Speaker. I am a Tory and there are 450 non Tory MPs in the HOC. He was the popular choice. The PP will just have to accept it and grow up.
51. There is nothing wrong with Young. If the HoC had been voting solely on who’d have been the best man for the job, Young would have won. He’s a completely fair, impartial, unpartisan adjudicator of the utmost integrity. He would have reformed the Commons too.
Your only problem with him is that he went to Eton.
Who’s the prejudice one now eh tim?
115
Why all this fuss about Jackson we all know he’s not dead, he’s living on Celebrity Island, with Lennon,Elvis, Princess Di etc.
So where are you on Calman Easteross, seems to be some confusion in the Unionist ranks?
I wouldn’t take all this talk about running a candidate against him or replacing him with a new speaker after the election very seriously. If it got widely reported the main thing it would achieve would be to make the people doing it look petty.
But there’s plenty of incentive for Tories to talk up the possibility of doing this. It sort-of reminds me of left-wing Democrats or right-wing Republicans trying to pressure their “moderate” representatives to toe the line by threatening to primary them. In most cases, actually doing it won’t particularly endear the party to the wider electorate it’s probably more effective to threaten it than to actually do it.
Even if a renegade Tory does try to run against Bercow, he’s unlikely to get much mainstream support.
116 - No, it’s all about you, sweetie. In your post at 95, I was part of your “they” that “drum up against Conservatives… a fantasy that all Conservatives are existentially ‘nasty’. It’s clear they only have their irrational prejudices to cling on to.” You categorise different views as automatically belonging to fantasy enemies. I suggest that you return to the real world sharpish.
115 Media meltdown over Jacko was guaranteed. ‘Tis the way of things. If the Big Brother House were to be hit by an asteroid (may it please God), I suspect that might warrant slightly more coverage than the shrug of the shoulders which I would give it.
To be fair, we have just had three weeks of political coverage to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else. That probably infuriated the hell out of the mindless celebrity lot!!
115. Surely the biggest story in Britain is whether the Big Brother contestants should be told about Jacko’s death ??
115: Agreed.
we need to watch what is going on because, for Brown et al, it is really is a “good day to bury bad news” (copyright: Jo Moore)
118. David Cameron has been nothing but courteous to Bercow. And there is no sign whatsoever that there is an intention to run a candidate against Bercow. Extrapolating comments on blogsites into Conservative party policy is just daft. As for the personal response to Bercow on the blogs(which Mike Smithson shared) simply reflects the justifiably angry reaction to Labour’s shameless bit of political gameplaying. The only thing Brown and Balls have a modicum of talent for.
125 Told by Gordon Brown, perhaps…
106. I agree with pretty much everything you were saying.
One way of silencing critics, rather than answering their criticism is simply to scream racism. This appears to be the defence now being employed by Bercow supporters. I think Mr Smithsons view last week that:
“After watching him at the hustings I understood quickly how they feel. For somewhat surprisingly I found myself taking an instant dislike to Bercow & came to the view that anybody else would be better. This was not about his politics but his personality - he combines being lightweight with arrogance & just talks in platitudes. Michael Martin staying on would be preferable.”
Exactly. Did this fall in the anti-semetic category or the over the top category or was it simply snobbery? or was that legitimate because the author wasn’t a tory.
128. I should imagine Gordo will be on GMTV shortly to say he’s personally phoned Bubbles with his condolences.
124, the mindless celebrity lot can go to hell. They’ve got crap magazines to read, there’s no need to pollute the news with their tosh.
Presumably Michael Howard never became Tory leader because he was Jewish!
Load of bullshit about his faith, very boring and badly concieved! Get back to the normal quality articles!
Bercow in his interview the other day with Bradby showed exactly why he is a contemptable cretin, two faced, smarmy, sleazy and arrogant! No wonder LDs like him! Maybe it is the LD who want to run someone against him?
Surprised nobody has referred to the death of Jackson on here! No offence intended but a good day for the political parties to bury bad news!
123. Antifrank - I have no idea what your political affiliations are (and from what you’ve written neither do you). But you clearly feel licenced to sling any old slurs at me, but get hyper sensitive when you are criticised. Let’s leave it there.
133 - I’m tough as old boots. Next time you casually conjure up some vast left wing conspiracy though, try to do so with some facts to hand.
129. Chris - I noted that remark by Mike at the time too, and was cheered by it. His sudden volte-face is quite strange.
Morning All,
At my gym this morning it was wall-to-wall bloody Michael effing Jackson. I like him even less now than I did when he was alive. Nothing personal, I dislike all paedos equally.
Rob
105. “The reaction of the Tories to Bercow isn’t very dismilar to that of Labour to, say, Kate Hoey.”
Kate Hoey’s personality is nothing like John Bercow’s.
So, will Brown just use Jackson’s death as a good day to bury bad news, or will he try and link himself with Jackson in a positive way? Considering that politics is his life, Brown’s sure to want to exploit the opportunity somehow, as may a few of our other senior politicians, of all parties.
On Bercow and anti-semitism perhaps I might advise PBers of a small incident that took place last week, before the outcome of the Speaker election but at the height of the Daily Mail rantothon against Bercow.
A Conservative party member of many years standing, but I emphasis not elected official or candidate, was regaling me with his less than flattering views on Bercow. Casually at the end of the conversation he said “and of course he’s a fuc*ing Jew !!”
Ironically this individual lives in Radlett which has a substantial Jewish population, and together we have attended numerous functions at the homes of Jewish couples of mutual acquant.
Sadly all parties have their fair share of nutters but the emnity against Bercow has been a sight to behold.
129. Chris - that’s a pleasant surprise! (I agree with your point too…)
Patrick at 16: you like maps and military history? Aha - in the manner of seanT, let me introduce you to one of my books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Comprehensive-Guide-Board-Wargaming/dp/0070481903
On topic: the thread’s got a bit preoccupied with Mike’s passing reference to a touch of anti-semitism. Like woody I didn’t know Bercow was Jewish and don’t care if he’s a Buddhist if he does the job well. *Some* people on the right are acutely alive to whether people are Jewish or not, but if the Tories thought he was a great guy I don’t suppose that’d worry them. In any case, the reaction has been politically immature and I suspect they’ll get over it. The odds look about right.
138. Maybe Brown will try and go to the funeral if Obama goes to it so he can get pictures with him!
Patrick at 16: you like maps and military history? Aha - in the manner of seanT, let me introduce you to one of my books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Comprehensive-Guide-Board-Wargaming/dp/0070481903
An on-topic thread agreeing with the view that the Tories will get over Bercow has got stuck in moderation, not sure why!
139. Jack W - I agree that is lamentable.
To be fair, Michael Jackson is pretty big news. I accept that it should not be the only story but this will be leading the news in many many countries. He really was a superstar.
It’s not the same as the usual celeb froth. This guy was world famous long before Heat magazine made nobodies famous.
139 - That does not mean most Tories’ dislike is anything to do with religion. I cite as exhibit A his behaviour towards Sir Peter.
139. That really does constitute a smear.
144.Patrick at 16: you like maps and military history? Aha - in the manner of seanT, let me introduce you to one of my books:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/54255601
Moderation note - earlier posts referring to the Ama*zon availability of the book got stuckk in moderation and can be deleted if this one gets through!
139 - also a sight to behold is the genuine unhappiness from our resident Tories about being associated en masse with anti-semitism, no?
BBC news 24 has covered no other story apart from Jackson for the last hour. This will surely improve our relations with Iran, where the authorities can really get on with the crackdown
The thread’s got a bit preoccupied with Mike’s passing reference to a touch of anti-semitism. Like woody I didn’t know Bercow was Jewish and don’t care if he’s a Buddhist if he does the job well. *Some* people on the right are acutely alive to whether people are Jewish or not, but if the Tories thought he was a great guy I don’t suppose that’d worry them. In any case, the reaction has been politically immature and I suspect they’ll get over it. The odds look about right.
147 That’s just a smokescreen. The worst culprits are those of us who are Jewish, oh yes.
I had never really registered Bercow’s existence before the speaker thing came up. What does seem very clear is that many have a profound dislike of the man. For so many to feel that way does suggest some element of ‘no smoke without fire’. None of us really know him I imagine. Those that do contain a very notable proportion who would categorise him in the ’see you next Tuesday’ column. I think that is what has driven the way they feel about the man and theor reaction to his election.
134. Antifrank - There is an ideological hole at the heart of the left that is presently being filled with an egregious attempt to drum up class warfare - witness Crewe and Nantwich etc. and unfounded accusations of racism - witness the campaign against Boris - in an attempt to get the Conservatives. That isn’t a conspiracy theory - it’s accurate observation.
I’m surprised that Iain Dale’s reaction to Bercow’s election is being described as “antagonistic”. I wouldn’t describe him as enthusiastically supportive, but his initial reaction was, in part, “… those of us who supported other candidates should now allow John Bercow to get on with the job and see what he makes of it. He has a lot to prove to a lot of people. And he has about a year to do it.
“It would be churlish for Conservatives not to wish him well. If he makes a success of the job everyone should be happy. But John Bercow must remember that he is a servant of the House, not its leader.”
He appears to regard Bercow as being on trial. From what I can see, he does not appear to be as anti-Bercow as Nadine and Letts (amongst others).
I am disappointed that Bercow has been elected. The rules for election of the speaker seem to be intended to ensure a level of cross-party support for candidates, hence the requirement that at least three of those nominating a candidate must be from another party. I am sure those who drew up the rules did not foresee a situation where a candidate could only muster a single nomination from his own party. Whilst I am sure some Labour MPs backed Bercow because they thought he was the best candidate, it does seem that many supported him for less honorable reasons.
Bercow is widely disliked in the Conservative party, not so much for his political journey as for his perceived arrogance and his apparent willingness to undermine his own party and support Labour. However, as a Conservative supporter, I hope we continue to respect the convention that parties do not put up candidates against the speaker and that there is no “Independent Conservative” with party backing. I note that Labour and the LibDems have both abandoned the convention for ex-Tory speakers, so it will be interesting to see if they stand against Bercow.
I understand that Bercow is popular in his constituency. Attempting to unseat him is therefore likely to fail. Another reason for the party to avoid getting involved with an “independent” candidate.
In any case, I think Cameron understands the politics of this situation even if others in his party don’t. He tried to get them to applaud Bercow’s election and his public statements have been supportive. I think it unlikely that he will want his party to remove the speaker following an election.
It is possible that, having removed one speaker, some MPs might have got the taste for it. However, I personally hope that it is another 300 years before a speaker is forced to stand down. Bercow was not my choice, mainly due to his lack of cross-party support, but I hope he makes a success of the job.
“*Some* people on the right are acutely alive to whether people are Jewish ”
As are *some* people on the left.
Seriously, you can’t understand why a number of us are rather annoyed and being labeled anti-semitic for not likeing Bercow?
141. I heard MJ’s 02 gigs have been rearranged to Madame Tussauds.
139. Jack W
On that basis we could condemn the whole of the Liberal Democrat Party as folk who shit on glass tables……….
LD = Shitters on Glass Tables!
Very poor! FWIW i believe Bercow failed to have the parliamentry experience to be speaker and this has shown through already IMO. I would also say Bercows Media skills have alot to be desired, talk of his relegious beliefs was no part of the reason why Bercow is hated.
149. *Some* people on the right are acutely alive to whether people are Jewish or not
Some people on the left are as well, Nick. So f***ing what?
The only people I see being immature are those who are resorting to the childish 1970s/1980s student union politics approach of smearing their opponents as racists.
139: I dont doubt what you say about your friend but that does not mean that everybody on this site or in the tory party hates John Bercow because he is jewish.
Why is it not alright just to dislike somebody without all the politically correct motives.
147. I suspect a fair few of our resident Conservatives are Jewish Andy D. At least I know I am.
Bercow, Conservative MP on the equality bill.
Bercow to Keith Vaz: Yes. I gave the example of women, but the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to challenge me more widely. I certainly do think so, & in principle I am sympathetic to the idea of black and minority ethnic shortlists
I am forced to conclude by saying that when it was said earlier that the Bill was a missed opportunity, I could not help but think, “No; the real missed opportunity in 2009 is the unwillingness of my own party’s Front Benchers to give the Bill a 2nd Reading.” Even now at this, the 59th minute after the 11th hour, I appeal to my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean for a change of heart on the part of our party.
This man is a toady!!!!!!!!!!!!! nothing to do with religeon for God’s sake!
It appears as though Bercow is already “sticking it” to the government:
The new Speaker took on the government for the first time yesterday. Gordon Brown had hoped to sneak out a written statement on cybercrime and security. The Tories objected, and John Bercow had a minister hauled into the house to explain what was going on.
Three cheers for that I say.
145 runnymede. You’re quite correct. I told the individual I didn’t approve of his attitude and we parted on not best terms.
147 Andy D. Not sure about that. The fact is all parties have an element they’d rather be rid of but the fight against them is considered probably not worth the overall effort.
The idea that Tories are anti-semetic is just absurd, look at John Major never had a problem with Edwina now did he?
Ridiculus comment about the tories not liking him becasue he is jewish. What was Michael Howard then?
why does this country persist in trying to find racism in every action?
Bercow is not the easiest person to like, partly because in my experience he makes little effort whatsoever to encourage you to like him. Some call it arrogance, others diffidence but either way there are a very large number of people in politics on all sides who fall into that category; and I would argue this characteristic is a major benefit for a Speaker of the House.
However it is one thing to be ‘not popular’ and another to be venomously hated as Mike and much of the media implies. Bercow is not hated, reviled or despised, or anything like it by anyone I know who has actually met or worked with him, including me.
I think many in politics are rightly wary of any in their number who appear to have Damascene political conversions - Portillo struggled on exactly this point - and Bercow travelled a very long way indeed across the political spectrum very rapidly. So the jury is out and he will have to earn what he is currently missing from many Tory MP’s, - respect. But I am sure he will do this, in fact I think he has already begun.
Patrick up thread asked about canvassing, yes it is very scientific these days with all the big parties having computer software specifically designed to help analyse the good and bad neighbourhoods to canvass and then keep records of where the voters are. We also have scores of very large scale maps and route plans for canvassing, leafletting and putting up signs. If you are interested why not join a political party where you live and help?
163. Look if people are going to bang on about anti-Semitism, at least learn how to spell it. Or better still desist from making cheap shots about a serious subject.
156 Martin D. I didn’t condemn the whole Conservative party at all.
I was very careful to indicate it was one individual who I regard as unrepresentative, wrong but vocal.
btw Mike Smithson this is probably the worst article you have written on here . Take a good walk and get a grip
146 NPMP. Many thanks sir - that looks sort of up my street.
Have you ever played the Avalon Hill game Stalingrad? (Typical hex board campaign game). I once played that for nearly 3 days straight when I was at school (boarding school weekends could sometimes be rather slow). I was the Russians and I won after just relentlessly grinding away the Krauts supply capability - numbers will tell in the end in an attritional fight!
I have a sneaking (and arrogant) suspicion I’d be good at Diplomacy but I’m still a Diplomacy virgin.
167. Ho hum ‘Jack’ yes of course. You parade a meaningless anecdote and juxtapose that with references to the intense Tory dislike of Bercow…no attempt to hint at wider guilt at all.
Very cheap.
161, good to hear. He missed a chance with Brown’s World At One pronouncement but hopefully this is a sign of things to come.
166
Sorry washed me hands last night, can’t do a thing with ‘em. As for cheap shots, where would life be without ‘em?
From his website…
Speaking in the debate on Members Allowances, Bercow calls for the inquiry by Sir Chris Kelly’s Committee on Standards in Public Life to consider MPs pay & possibility of an absolute ban on outside interests…
Bercow praises the success of the introduction of the national minimum wage & makes the case for an extraordinary increase of 10% at the annual uprating in October.
Bercow outlines measures to increase the representation of women in Parliament including the introduction of all-women shortlists.
Speaking on issues concerning women in particular, Bercow raises concerns about disparity in the provision of abortion services across the country & calls for the simplification in the laws on equality by the introduction of a single equality Bill.
Bercow argues that increased European co-operation is in the best interest of the UK & highlights examples including defence procurement, energy supply & cross-border crime.
Was this a wind-up? What on Earth was he doing in the Tory party?
I see no evidence of anti-semitism, a strange comment at best.
(a) Person X is Jewish
(b) Person Y dislikes Person X
(c) Person Y is therefore an anti-semite
(c) does not follow from (a) and (b) !!! Really it is most unfair to make such allegations without foundation.
I didn’t even know Bercow was Jewish until this week. But then I also didn’t know - but do now after having heard him drone on interminably - that he is a self-important arrogant bore with a totally unjustifed over-inflated opinion of himself.
No wonder people don’t like him frankly.
165. I live in Manila right now and Philippino politics interests me not. (You think our politics is corrupt? Not even these guys’ league).
I don’t think this debate is getting us very far and the tone of it is not up to PBs usual standards. Is it, perhaps, time for a new thread?
So what have we learnt today, children?
Miss, Miss! That the only people who hate politicians more than the general public are other politicians. Usually from their own party….
Further evidence of the fracturing relationship between the Darling, Brown and King:
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/06/26/59156/uk-banking-act-to-boost-fsas-role/
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6559d5ac-61eb-11de-9e03-00144feabdc0.html
…Although Mr King argues he did warn of a dangerous build-up of credit in the economy, the Treasury view is that the governor did not shout loudly enough…
No doubt Mr King’s view is that the Treasury had their fingers firmly stuck in their ears while chanting ‘no more boom and bust’.
177
Oh! how true.
170 Ho Hum ‘Runnymede’ yes of course. You parade a meaningless inference and juxtapose with refrences to something I haven’t said …no attempt to hint at wider appreciation at all.
Bargain (de)basement.
I am appalled by the insinuation that Tory objections are anything to do with racism or class. These are just cheap shots, of the same nature used on Martin’s detractors, with no substance and says more about your prejudices then it does about the Tory party.
The simple truth is Labour found a helpful idiot to continue their juvenile tribal warfare whilst they still can. The Speaker should have been someone the whole House respected and it is Labour’s fault that yet again someone who isn’t has been chosen.
180. Don’t play the innocent, no-one buys it. Your inference was as clear as day.
Unless a really credible candidate pitches up in Buckingham, and it looks very unlikely when there are better targets in the current climate, there’s no prospect of Bercow losing.
Bercow was widely disliked and distrusted in the Tory Party in 2005 and romped home in his seat. He has been MP for Buckingham for 12 years. His majority has never dipped below 12,000 and he only dipped below 50% of the vote in the nightmare Tory year of 1997, and then only fractionally.
Are enough of those people going to desert him for some nobody because Quentin Letts and few saddos at ConHome think he’s a Bad Man? Are they balls. Aside from a handful of ultra-political types, nobody gives a damn about some petty internal party squabble.
Mike seems to have an obsession with the Jewish Faith!
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2005/01/28/will-the-pig-poster-cost-jewish-votes/
173, all-women shortlists are utterly despicable.
Forget about the polls, just ask Tredinnick.
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/campaign/2009/06/claim-your-free-horoscope-from-david-tredinnick-mp.html
Hmmm seem to remember he was a, ‘Cash for questions’ MP.
O/t
Interesting article in the Easter Daily Press about Lib Dem hypocrisy.
The last sentence reads Labour will choose their candidate on Sunday.. I wonder if they’ve managed to find anyone remotely interesting. Do they pick someone to actually try and win or just to get across various messages about the Conservatives?
184 — the obvious suspicion is the pigs poster was a dog whistle to Muslim voters who had deserted Labour over Iraq.
I am interest in how Mike thinks this is a racial thing, rather than a personal thing….
182 ruunymede. Well let me be as “clear as day” about you.
I don’t give a toss !!
187. That would seem to hint strongly that the Lib Dems are in danger of polling behind the Greens in the seat.
You should withdraw the anti Semitism remark.
But then you are a self confessed LibDem so no surprises at the cheap nasty campaign tricks.
174. chris
“Was this a wind-up? What on Earth was he doing in the Tory party?”
Bercow is not and probably has never been a Cosnervative.
What he is though is an intensely ambitious professional politician.
When Bercow entered politics in the 1980s right wing Conservatism was in vogue and he followed this path enabling him to be selected for one of the safest Conservative constituencies.
Experiencing life in opposition and realising he was not well regarded by his own party Bercow decided the best thing he could aim for was Speaker. For that he needed support from the Labour party, hence his conversion to trendy left wing issues and criticism of the Conservative party leadership.
185. Morris Dancer, but more really the earlier posting saying Bercow wasnt a Tory
Werent they peddled by Cameron at one point though, and therefore Conservative policY
here it is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_List_(Conservative)
187.
Why are the LDs bothering about the Greens ?
Conservative: 15638 (33.2%)
Labour: 21097 (44.9%)
Liberal Democrat: 7616 (16.2%)
Green: 1252 (2.7%)
UKIP: 1122 (2.4%)
Other: 308 (0.7%)
Majority: 5459 (11.6%
Any news whether UKIP (or BNP will stand ?) Could be the difference.
163.
I have to agree with coldstone and this article suggests that is the case,whilst taking a well deserved swipe at Jacqui Smith.
Conservative leader David Cameron wooed the Jewish community in four separate encounters this week.
He spoke at a lunch and a dinner, held private talks with the Jewish Leadership Council executive and yesterday was due to open a centre for autistic adults at the Norwood Ravenswood home in Berkshire.
At the Conservative Friends of Israel annual business lunch last Thursday, attended by dozens of MPs and peers, he told supporters that his belief in the Jewish state was “indestructible”.
Mr Cameron also attacked the government’s stance on tackling antisemitism and extremism, claiming not enough had been done to reassure the Jewish community. He said former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith was wrong to include controversial Jewish-American radio host Michael Savage on a list of extremists while ignoring Islamic cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi and Ibrahim Moussawi, the Hizbollah media relations officer.
This thread is really unedifying and sounds like a partisan echo chamber. Opposing Bercow doesn’t make someone anti-semitic. Presumably Widders and Beckett lost because of the overwhelming misogny of the MPs?
But, and there is a but, I do find the sheer rage of the Tories (both here and broader) a bit, well, pointless. WE HAVE JUST HAD 9 YEARS OF MICHAEL MARTIN. Let’s at least wait to see if he’s any good (and there’s the small matter of winning the election to get through first) before plotting to remove him. Can we please focus our efforts on getting rid of the government FFS!
Just a side note on the Anti-Semitic thing.
This will probably come across as sounding totally ignorant, but the Jewish issue has always completely baffled me. I honestly wouldn’t know whether an individual was Jewish or not. If they were called something like Disraeli then I suspect I would guess, but other than that I would have to be told outright.
Until Cameron mentioned it on Monday I didn’t know that Berkow was Jewish. Until I read this thread I didn’t know that Michael Howard was. The fact that they are is of total non interest to me, and I don’t know a single person who would either know or be interested. It is just not something that ever comes up.
Is it a generational thing? I’m in my late 30’s. If I was 10 years older would it be a big issue for me? Maybe it’s something that is an issue in particular schools or areas of the country.
I’m generally interested in this, as it’s something that does puzzle me whenever I read something like the comments on here today. It really is a subject that seems to be quite a big deal for part of the population and a total non issue for others, with little middle ground. When I say it is a big deal, I’m not accusing people of being anti-semitic, but they do seem to see it as a possibility in others.
197. Presumably Widders and Beckett lost because of the overwhelming misogny of the MPs?
No, they lost because they were both F*cking ugly!
192, unfair. Mike’s comment about it is wrong, in my opinion, but he’s very good at being objective almost all the time.
194, I’m strongly against the A-list as well. It’s also about ethnic minorities, but frankly demographic representation for the sake of it is pathetic identity politics. Do we demand 50% of MPs should be of below average intelligence? Do we have enough obese and anorexic MPs? Are there enough ginger MPs? Why aren’t any of them under 18?
It’s pathetic.
197.How very ageist/anti-Scottish you have revealed yourself to be!!!!!
Throatwobbler Mangrove!
I’ll answer my own question : UKIP are standing
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/norwichnorth?cp=8
As NPMP has been reading this thread I wonder if he could give his thoughts of the Nottinghamshire CC election results.
Beforehand he had been smugly predicting that the council would be controlled by a Labour/LibDem alliance after the election with Labour being the dominant party and probably largest on the council.
The actual results turned out to be:
Con 35
Lab 13
LD 9
Oth 10
169: Patrick
It’s fair to say that wargames have moved on somewhat since AH’s Stalingrad (and, indeed, Diplomacy). Have a look at the GMT games website, for example.
195 - both UKIP and BNP have apparently selected candidates. There is also the first ever Westminster candidate for the Libertarian Party. Joy!
198. Keith. It is a generational thing. My mother always used to say about some of my schoolfriends “and of course dear, they are Catholics ” as if that revelation explained something terribly important -although I was never clear quite what.
We are lucky to live in a much more inclusive age, not perfect, but infinitely better than at any previous time.
195. Ghost - probably because the recent locals results suggested an outcome for the Norwich N wards of -
Con 9102 38.2%
Lab 4682 19.6%
Grn 3917 16.4%
LD 3809 16.0%
UKIP 2106 8.8%
BNP 228 1.0%
So looks like a tight scrap for places 2-4, with no-one wanting to come in at 4…
Morning all,
On topic - this from Conhome in 2005:
Yesterday’s negative campaigning from David Cameron has produced a furious response from John Bercow, a prominent backer of Ken Clarke.
Unlike David Cameron’s remarks - which focused on the political weaknesses of David Davis and Ken Clarke, Mr Bercow has chosen a deeply personal form of attack. “Eton, hunting, shooting and lunch at Whites” made David Cameron the wrong man for the job, Mr Bercow said.
Mr Bercow’s implied attack on Mr Davis was more political. Mouthing the same old mantras on Europe, immigration and tax cuts would cause the Tory Party to “sleepwalk” to another election defeat, he said.
Although Liam Fox had made attacks on Ken Clarke’s Iraq policy earlier this month, his campaign is now trying to rise above the fray. “We’re not going to get sucked into this,” a spokesman said, “We’re concentrating on the issues. This morning we highlighted the need for lower taxes and English votes on English laws. This afternoon we’re talking about the “Broken Society” and need to help Britain’s mentally ill. Anything else, frankly is irrelevant.”
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/toryleadership/2005/09/bercow_attacks_.html
So who’s the classist bigot?
Furthermore this demonstrates clearly how ‘expert’ Bercow has been at ‘making friends and winning influence’ and ‘burning his bridges’.
Now to ignore Bercow’s excessive and questionable expenses (that he has now been rewarded for with a massive pay rise and a free taxpayer funded home), the repeated insulting disloyalty, the almost constant attempts to ingratiate himself with Labour and his blatant campaign to see himself made speaker since 2005 without regard to the impact it might have on his other responsibilities (perhaps in the knowledge that his political career was going nowhere) as this article does is myopic.
Furthermore, the article ignores the wider perversion instigated by Labour and seemingly, submissively supported by many Libdems in corrupting the role of Speaker for political ends and in doing so further devaluing our Parliament.
I suppose, in many ways, it is unsurprising for anti-democratic parties or their supporters to undermine our democratic system in such a manner……..
33. Ken
Bercow was not one of the “heinous” offenders. He claimed a lot, but it looked in the main OK. His one crime was the CGT one, where he dissembled (I cant remember whether I paid), he used the “legal advice” (my solicitor said it was OK), and then said he would cough up. It was a tiny amount
It depends on whether you accept the Telegraph’s Kangaroo court’s view of what is right or whether you take an alternate view. Personally, I rejected the Telegraph’s pathetic, cheap, disingenuous, selective and malevolent views fairly early on preferring to question the underlying abuse of power by MPs.
In 2001 when they voted themselves an unprecedented 43% increase in ACA. In 2003 when they exempted their allowances from tax and in 2004 when the Ministerial code was altered to provide flexibility for Ministers to nominate whatever 2nd home they wish. These actions exacerbated the seriousness of the expenses debacle ten-fold.
Now under my terms, as Bercow claimed the max in ACA for 6 successive years he is amongst the most heinous offenders. In fact he could have not been any worse an offender without breaking the rules. The fact that belatedly he felt he must pay back CGT only exacerbated the situation.
So the fact he has now been rewarded for abusing the system to the extent he has (the prestige, the free home, the vastly increased financial remuneration) is an affront to the electorate.
198 Keith, I’m in my late forties and I’m with you on the Jewishness thing - never registered in my take on folks. But perhaps I just have really crap Oi Vey-dar….
Whatever one thinks about Mike’s articles, the Tories should be completely aware that their reaction to Bercow’s appointment makes them seem petty, vindictive and opposed to the very change in Parliament they proclaim to support.
Talk of getting rid of the speaker because they didn’t like the election result is really pathetic.
208. runnymede: So looks like a tight scrap for places 2-4, with no-one wanting to come in at 4…
Shades of Henley…
200.
Im not disagreeing about A-lists, theyre sill (especially speaking as a white male).
About the article, I think we can all agree that most Conservatives dont like him as he is arrogant and obtuse, and most Labour people like him because the Conservatives dont.
You might get some wacko’s standing against him, but no candidate who stood against Bercow could ever be supported or later endorsed by the Conservative Party, the press would have a field day, not worth it
210. Marquee Mark: But perhaps I just have really crap Oi Vey-dar….
212. Shades of Ealing Southhall more like - this is not a gimme.
199. Keith
Not many Jews in eastern Barnsley though!
Part of anti-semitism comes from a hatred of Israel, part from religion, part is fear of ‘the other’, part from it allows life’s failures someone to blame, part is just opportunism.
I’ve never understood it myself or other forms of prejudice. If you want to dislike someone its not usually too difficult to find something they do which is dislikable so why chose a thing over which they have no choice about.
200
Do we have enough obese and anorexic MPs
We have more than enough obese MP’s. At PMQ’s its interesting, (often the only thing that is) to let your eyes wander along the benches, and see the flesh poking out between the buttons of over stretched shirts.
Anorexics are certainly noticeable by their absence.
143 You are right David - there are maybe a handful of true world stars every generation, Michael Jackson was on such super star.
213.Maybe Esther Rantzen…
Cameron won’t risk it. Challenging Bercow at the election would ‘distract’ the media, who should be covering Labour meltdown only. After the election however…a new Speaker for a new reformed Parliament….has a nice ring to it…
But who knows…some of the biggest or in his case smallest sh*ts in life are rather good at their job. We shall wait and see.
215. TGOHF: this is not a gimme.
Well, no, indeed. But the “tight battle for second to fourth” was also the story for Henley - until Labour managed to come fifth. It certainly wasn’t for Ealing Southall, when there was never any chance of Labour losing it.
210 MM. Oi Vey-Dar! LOL
That’s a classic.
198. It’s interesting that being Jewish is not something on your radar. But if you know anything about the subject I think you’d be horrified by the levels of anti-Semitism in this country. Incidents of assaults on people who are visibly Jewish are much higher than average (obviously conncetrated in certain areas like Manchester, Stamford Hill, NW London). Many incidents go unreported because the attitude of the community is not to draw attention to the issue, for fear of a backlash. Large Jewish organisations make every effort to be incognito for fear of attack - for instance they won’t put signs up indicating they are Jewish. A friend works for a very large Jewish charity - the care buses are regularly vandalised and it is frequent for bacon to be splattered on them and swastikas with stars of David daubed on. The elderly membership suffer a disturbingly highly incidence of physical assault. As far as I know we are the only community forced into funding our own private security (the Community Security Trust) that works closely with the police.
215. Well no byelection is a gimme, but the mathematics of the recent results do go a long way to explaining the tone of the article linked to upthread.
For the Conservatives to lose, either the Greens or Lib Dems will have to hoover up a lot of votes from each other and Labour - I can’t see Labour holding at all. That will be very hard I think as neither is likely to roll over for the other.
Remember also Norwich N will be a different kind of seat post the GE - better for the Greens, worse for the Lib Dems and Tories…
222. Any stats on the whether these attacks come from any particular section of the community ?
I see our esteemed Foreign Secretary has paid tribute to Michael Jackson FFS
I have two points to make
1 When the Labour party back room boys harbour people like McBride I do rather wonder how they (and indeed our host) have the face to call the Conservatives the nasty party.
2 In relation to the Jews, I resent deeply our host’s blanket smear on Conservative attitudes. I for one, whilst living in France, have done much research on WWII, activities in particular the work of the Maquisard, the bravery and particularly that of the Jewish population and the continuing threat to them. I will not be tarred with the brush our host seeks to use – it is an insult to so many of us who would not dream of acting in the way he suggests. Individual people may behave badly, but don’t cast us under the same umbrella.
And furthermore, can we stop saying that Jackson’s death will “let Iran get away it”?
Iran ALWAYS WAS going to “get away with it” — dictators and zealots are never going to surrender power willingly, and given Iran’s already less-than-stellar reputation it’s not like they have anything to lose.
So what does that leave — Obama sending in the marines? I don’t think so.
Bercow is a major trougher and his election is a F.U. to the electorate with MPs saying they don’t care about who has done what.
As such he will be faced by a Martin Bell-type clean up candidate. The speaker is a figurehead who needs to be beyond reproach and they elected someone who is as bad as Martin, who was turfed out partly for that reason.
An independent conservative will just cloud the issue, a true independent will do the job better and I look forward to his non-election being a signal to MPs to wise up.
And I disagree rarely with OGH but the idea of anti-semitism is plain wrong, Bercow is a symbol of corruption raised to high office despite that corruption. He could be a Moonie for all that people do, and should, care.
225 Miliband has proved to be a very poor Foreign Secretary.
Is it true that in the Foreign Office, he isn’t known as the FS so much as the FFS…?
223. runnymede: For the Conservatives to lose, either the Greens or Lib Dems will have to hoover up a lot of votes from each other and Labour - I can’t see Labour holding at all. That will be very hard I think as neither is likely to roll over for the other.
I’d like to see shadsy put up a “what position will Labour finish in?” market. Even fourth place ought to be unlikely; fifth should be impossible.
As I must now sign off, rather heartened that Tory response on here as been one of outrage at the smear. Hope the article is redacted later, to cover-up the offense.
174.
“(c) does not follow from (a) and (b)”
unless it is convenient for X to claim that it does…
216 “Not many Jews in eastern Barnsley though!”
Maybe not, I wouldn’t know how to tell.
I was bought up in the South though, and it wasn’t an issue amongst my contemporaries there either.
As a form of prejudice it just seems odd to me as it is not obvious. If you are coloured then it is obvious to everyone, but my guess is that the majority of people wouldn’t be able to identify someone as jewish.
I’m probably wrong, but from the scant evidence I’ve seen, we seem to have a far bigger problem with false accusations of anti-semitism than we do with anti-semitism itself. I doubt the same could be said about other forms of racism and prejudice.
This is all said from a position of great ignorance though.
216. Ghost
Shades of Ealing Southall?
Was Ealing Southall 98% white?
Were the Conservatives outpolling Labour 2:1 in the local elections in Ealing Southall?
198 It partly depends where you were brought up and educated. I’ve lived in North London and South Herts. for most of my life, which have substantial Jewish populations, and went to a school were about 40% of the pupils were Jewish. So, I’d almost always be able to tell if someone was Jewish, if I was talking to them.
219 Esther Rantzen as a Conservative candidate? …..I don’t think so somehow! Anyway, and I’m whispering this very quietly, she’ll be 70 years old by the time of next year’s election.
228. Paul - if you want a true independent then you can’t be thinking about Martin Bell. Even Martin Day would fit that bill better.
Historically, anti-semitism in this country has been a brand of snobbery. Only the real nutcases here believe in the lurid conspiracy theories.
237.
238. correct.
Let’s cut OGH some slack here. What he actually wrote was “The Tory reaction so far has been over-the-top, class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism - a possible reminder of how the “nasty party” used to be seen. “.
OK - maybe it was a bit clumsily phrased. But that’s all. Funny that the mention of “class-ridden” has not generated the same level of debate.
Let’s cut Mike some slack. It isn’t easy to keep churning out these leading articles at the end of each thread. At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I think that he does a great job (as do the other guest contributors).
Finally, my own two-pennyworth is that I am feel that the Conservatives contain much less anti-semitic nastiness than the Left of Centre parties these days. Mention Israel to a lot of lefties I know, and they go Nuts!
222 - Oscar
I am interested to hear that, and it would suggest that my posting above could be wrong.
Do you feel that it is a general anti-semitic feeling, or a small number of people? Do you find that being Jewish often causes problems in dealing with others?
By the way, I hope I don’t inadvertantly cause offence anywhere here. I’m not trying to play down what is obviously a very big problem in many cases, just trying to get a better understanding of an issue that has long puzzled me.
The rightful comparison with Norwich North is not actually Henely or Ealing Southall.
It is Crewe and Nantwich.
I wonder if RodC would give his opinion on what the Conservatives have to achieve to be on course for a general election win.
I believe he said a 10% margin and 5000 majority for Crewe.
231 If it was a smear it only covered one angle.
On the Porpoise Smearometer which I introduced yesterday it only scores 4%.
The smearmeister on this site is tim and his highest PS score ever was only 32%.
239. Sean Fear
It’s also been used by the political opportunists notably in recent years by LibDems in heavily Muslim areas.
Martin Day for Parliament! The campaign starts here.
Ave It O9 should be there too. (Although, would he have to resign every New Year and fight a by-election in his new quise??)
200 - 100% of Peterboroughs MP’s are of below average intelligence, perhaps it’s a quota
243. another richard: I wonder if RodC would give his opinion on what the Conservatives have to achieve to be on course for a general election win.
101% of the vote…
139 Someone who doesn’t like “f*cking Jews” must be a bit thick if he chooses to live in Radlett. It’s like an Irish Republican choosing to live on the Shankill Road.
235-Agree. At school in Barnet in the 1980s it was quite clear who most of the Jews were. Their names often gave them away. However, on the streets it was not always so obvious.
Unsurprisingly there were none who looked like the caricatures in the Volkischer Beobachter.
241 …or to Sean T…
247 Given the previous history of the seat, maybe it is actually down to the weird folk of Peterborough - who are continually voting for one of their own??
re 198 not sure if it’s generational. Anti-semite is a smear often used for no reason. For instance if you say anything about the state of ISrael you’ll be branded an anti-semite. If you say anything about a jewish person then ditto.
249 The comment does suggest it might have been laced with irony…
253-But no difference to discussion on race/immigration. Anti-semite/racist/Islamophobe, all terms taht tend tog et bandied about all too easily.
I love the idea that Mike shows a lapse of judgement as soon as he says anything critical of the Tories.
The Tory attitude to Bercow is frankly bizarre and the vitriol shown towards him on this thread and at those questioning their vitriol towards him is bizarre. It can’t just be his interpersonal skills as I would bet that the number of people who have actually met him who post here is a number close to zero.
245. Well of course Sean’s earlier observation needs to be qualified, inasmuch as the mass immigration of recent years has introduced a new and much more sinister form of anti-semitism into the country.
Mike - I haven’t read the full thread so apologies in advance. I just came on and read your remarks and am now in a rage.
Conservative loathing for Bercow is nothing to do with class, let alone anti-semitism.
It was you who commented after the hustings how unpleasant you found Bercow - a discovery that surprised you.
Imagine that X 100 for those of us who have had to deal with the arrogant little creep and you might spend less time smearing Bercow’s critics as snobs and Jew haters - a particulary perverse accusation in my case, I assure you, because, unlike Bercow, I’m actually Jewish.
NORWICH NORTH POLL BY ICM (Conhome)
Con - 34% (+1 on the 2005 general election)
Lab - 30% (-15)
Lib Dem - 15% (-1)
Greens - 14% (+11)
Others - 7% (+4)
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/06/first-poll-in-norwich-north-points-to-a-tory-gain.html
Now we know why the LDs are sweating !!
re 241 Disraeli why on earth is “going nuts” over Israel - and rightly so in my opinion for many of their actions - anti-semitic?
256 I used to know Bercow very well. I suspect some people who comment here *are* well acquainted with him.
256 Bugger off! Suggesting that there is a deep-seated anti-semitism behind the dislike of Bercow is a little more than being “critical of the Tories”.
“Bang out of order” I think is a better term.
“I love the idea that Mike shows a lapse of judgement as soon as he says anything critical of the Tories.”
No, he shows a lack of judgement by claiming anti-semitism.
259. Nice one - not far off the locals results I posted earlier, except that Labour’s showing is much better than those would imply.
Norwich North
Will Hill odds for Labour to retain the seat are 6 to 1!
There is nothing wrong with being critical of Israel. However, lefties go absolutely disproportionately nuts over it, calling for bans, boycotts and excusing attacks on the community in a way they wouldn’t do for any other situation.
265. Given that poll, 6/1 looks ok ?
Conhome
“points to the contest very much being a two-horse race ”
“There is nothing wrong with being critical of Israel.”
ANTI-SEMITE!!!
267 Yeah - but Brown hasn’t gone and campaigned there yet!
243. It’s best I don’t say much, lest it be twisted or misinterpreted. Historically, a 20%+ swing in a by-election is indicative of a likely change of government. So far, the Tories have not achieved this, and their running average is very modest - lower than that achieved in the last parliament.
Make of that what you will…
I live in Norwich North and - on the whole - I would expect Labour to come a fairly clear second at the by election. Quite a few more of their supporters are likely to turn out in a parliamentary election,and ,from conversations ,I suspect that a good number of those who switched to the Greens at the Local/Euro elections will drift back.
This is a gut feeling at a very early stage in an election yet to be called - I might be wrong!
267 - Two big factors. Differential turnout and the fact the Tories will be up for the campaign and Labour won’t. Save your money - this is a nailed on Tory gain.
268 “LibDems can’t win here!”
But if so, will their voters bail out Labour?
266 That’s because of the unstinting US support for Israel over the years - especially the last 8 years or so. And if there’s one thing that unhinges a lefty even more than Israel it’s GWB. (NO I’m not a Bush apologist - just making an observation).
246. Marquee Mark
Part of my Manefesto will be to ‘vere’ a German Helmet and carry a German ‘Toilet Plunger’ hand grenade with me at all times!
256 Dan “The Tory attitude to Bercow is frankly bizarre and the vitriol shown towards him on this thread and at those questioning their vitriol towards him is bizarre. It can’t just be his interpersonal skills as I would bet that the number of people who have actually met him who post here is a number close to zero.”
If you really don’t get why the Tories don’t like Bercow, then you either
a) Have not been reading the threads on PB.com, or
b) You have been reading the threads but are too thick to understand them
Yes, there is a lot of “vitriol” to those who question the Tories attitude towards Bercow. The Tories are reacting so angrily because the people doing the questioning are trying to smear the Tories by claiming that the real reasons for their dislike of the new Speaker are things such as racism and class-snobbery.
271 “their running average is very modest”
And how many Scottish seats in that “running average”, Rod?
256 - Dan
I met him once in about 2001 at a dinner. I sat a couple of seats away from him and, at the time, the thought that one day he would be elected speaker by Labour to the consternation of the Conservatives didn’t really enter my head, I must say.
I don’t follow individual MP’s all that closely and I’m unsure what to make of him so far. He did seem rather arrogant at the time (one of the people with me was very struck by that) so I’d suggest that could be an issue.
I’m happy to wait and see how he does now. He seems to have done reasonably well so far but it’s early days.
I’d be amazed if anything was done to try to unseat him at the General Election. As was mentioned above the Conservatives won’t want to distract media attention from the campaign itself with what will be viewed as infighting. Hopefully he will have proved himself to be a competent speaker by then anyway.
268. Ghost
Remember the polls at Crewe and Glasgow E showed Labour doing far better than they turned out to do.
276 Just as long as you pledge to secure funding for the Space Gun…
The reaction to Mike’s thread by-line is imho, justified. An unnecessary and provocative bit of nonsense that was bound to raise the hackles of some.
And a timely reminder perhaps of how often Mike does hit the right note, wrt impartiality and fairness.
224.The CST keeps its own stats but I don’t think they single out particular sectors for blame - tho it is acknowledged that Muslim groups have joined fascist BNP types to exacerbate the problem. An all party inquiry into anti-Semitism in Britain reported in 2006. Iain Duncan Smith, who was a member of the group, said:
“I joined this inquiry feeling that there was a problem but I left the report now feeling that the situation is far worse than I anticipated. The evidence we received from every group in this comprehensive study suggested that, without question, antisemitic attacks are on the rise. The situation is getting worse.”
The government responded last year with a set of basic measures(woefully under-reported by the press).
The current linkage between Israel and the rise of anti-Semitism is deeply ironic, given that Israel was established in an attempt to overcome anti-Semitism. Political Zionism was the direct product of the birth of racial anti-Semitism that took off in Germany at the end of the nineteenth century and was rampant by the time of the Dreyfus affair. Because Jews were attacked for being ‘rootless cosmopolitans’ with no loyalty to the nation states they lived in, it was thought having a Jewish state would put Jews on an equal footing with all other nations and tackle the causes of anti-Semitism. Of course it didn’t quite work out like that. The whole problem has always been a tortured Catch 22 - whatever Jews have done they’ve been damned. The most consistent feature of anti-Semitism is its extraodinary versatility, showing a remarkable ability to adapt to prevailing circumstances. Before the 2WW popular atttacks on Jews for being Communist subversives at the same time as accusing them of being capitalist exploiters was quite phenomenal.
272. RodC
You don’t sound very confident Rod
283 - There is of course the EC report on anti-semitism in Europe, which was mysteriously supressed at first and then released with headline conclusions that bore no relation to the actual data they had gathered……
278. Four. Don’t forget, the Tories obtained their second best result of this parliament in Glasgow East of all places.
Removing the four Scottish seats from the analysis increases the overall Tory performance by less than 1%….
280. Yes - I’d be tempted to take an average of this poll plus the notional results from the locals as a decent pointer to the actual result. The main interest I think remains the scuffle for places 2-4.
When was the last time a party fell to fourth in a seat it was defending at a byelection? That would make dreadful copy for Labour.
274. A LD vote is a wasted vote!
From the vote 2005 site - apologies if posted earlier:
Iain Dale’s blog reports a poll, conducted by ICM in Norwich North, sponsored by the Universities and Colleges Union:
Conservatives 34% (+1%)
Labour 30% (-15%)
Liberal Democrats 15% (-1%)
Green Party 14% (+11%)
Others 7%
Going really off topic now, and to clear up another question, my wife and I were driving near Newcastle on a Saturday last year and we found ourselves driving amongst lots of people in extremely large black hats.
My wife did some research on her blackberry and we concluded that they were Jewish. Were we correct?
To those of us not in the Conservative Party, the sort of bile that has been directed at John Bercow really is rather extraordinary and I am at a loss to explain it. It just seems out of all proportion to the stated criticism (that he is rather arrogant - but name an MP who isn’t - and that he has drifted from the fold) and it’s hard to get a grip on the underlying reason. I think that was the point Mike was making.
To those of you who are Conservatives, do you really not see how weird it looks to those of us who aren’t?
289 - off to Specsaves - it has been posted earlier but didn’t notice it
Interesting map. Constituencies really are quite small aren’t they? I’d happily have far fewer MPs.
291, I think one reason the Tories are pissed is not just because they loathe Bercow, but also that the Speaker’s role is meant to be utterly impartial and Parliament’s in crisis, yet Bercow was thrust into the big chair because of PLP partisanship.
260 ChrisA. What I actually wrote was “Mention Israel to a lot of lefties I know, and they go Nuts!”
Most lefties that I know strongly and honestly condemn racism. For some (and the people that I am thinking of are NOT party activists) all Jews are closet Zionist extremists.
What happens is that some people genuinely criticise the actions of the State of Israel. No problem with that. I don’t support 100% of everything that Israel does either. However, several people in my acquaintance let the mask slip when they start getting excited. Rather than “Israel is doing this…”, it’s “The Jews are doing this…”. Conspiracy theories start getting mentioned. Claims that the UK is being run by Jewish interests, and other fantasies.
290. Very likely - their is a big strictly Orthodox Jewish community in Gateshead.
283. “Before the 2WW popular atttacks on Jews for being Communist subversives at the same time as accusing them of being capitalist exploiters was quite phenomenal.”
Herzl, the founder of Zionism, acknowledged that both species of Jews were commonplace…
293 - Wiganer
Some are huge.
I’m also fascinated by maps. I can tell from experience though that fully mapping out an entire constituency into manageable chunks for delivery etc is a very time consuming job.
Presumably when we were apes, we thought those that came from the other side of the river or forest were strange. The sooner we grow up and learn to forget about or celebrate differences, actual or perceived, the better.
297 - You mean, like the rest of society, there are some people who are left wing, and some who are right wing?
Good heavens, the very idea…….
295. That fits with my experience too and is in fact classic anti-Semitism. Prejudice about Jews is in Europe’s DNA - and as Conor Cruise Brian eloquently phrased it, it’s a very light sleeper.
297. Oh here we go. The dog starts barking when it hears the whistle, predictably.
301. Um, that should have been of course Conor Cruise O’Brien.
So so far we have one poster who actually knows Bercow and another who sat opposite him at dinner. (A number close to zero)
Sir Norfolk at 291 is right - why the vitriol towards Bercow (and those who question the vitriol)?
294 - I can see you being disappointed if you feel the best person for the job didn’t get it. Just that the level of bile in some quarters seems grossly disproportionate if that’s the only real factor at play.
290 - more likely to be the Hasidic community, I lived many years again in Stoke Newington and there was a large community there near Stamford Hill. One thing that did please me then was that the Palestinian Community albiet small worked in tandem with them. Pity it didn’t happened elsewhere.
In Norwich North will there be two “Labour” candidates?
Does polling in by-elections have a good record? It always seems to me to be a less precise science, oddly.
297. And that was a reason to demonise them was it? Oh pur-lease … I really thought people who posted on this site were a cut above that kind of idiocy.
299
Battles between chimpanzees are well documented. They are strong animals and the ferocity is incredible.
meanwhile back in the real world an item of business news I heard on the TV this morning may be far more important than the Jaco story or even Norfolk North.
It is rumoured the chinese Government intends to block the takeover of some American truck company which is virtually bust by a Chinese company. A spokesman for the chinese Government was reported as saying that the Government is concerned the trucks built by the company are not very environmentally friendly!!
Given that the Chinese virtually own America now, this could be a very interesting straw in the wind.
OT, anyone know if ICM ever published the details of the poll they apparently did for the News of the World?
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/346704/Exclusive-ICM-poll-for-News-of-the-World-shows-the-politicians-who-last-night-backed-Brown-will-be-kicked-out-by-the-electorate.html
I can’t seem to find it on their site, but what with the British Polling Council rules they’re supposed to have published it by now, aren’t they?
309. Oscar - Rod has a long history of posting this kind of stuff. Ignore.
306. Yeah - there is a big hasidic (or haredi community as they call themselves as not all are hasidim) in Gateshead.
JNT -polling in By elections only appears to be less precise because there is an actual election result to compare the poll against.
Normal polls are always absolutely spot on.
313. Thanks for the tip runnymede.
304. Dan - Lets not forget that Bercow was a helpful idiot to Gordon Brown in 2007.
That is where my dislike of him comes from. Indeed it would not surprise me knowing Brown that he stitched the speakership up with him then!
I have not heard Bercow condemn Labour in the mass media of what it is has done to the country once. The only reason you bring it up is you know the Tories will defeat you at the next election!
Call Nick Clegg the Yellow Taxi of doom! 
291/304 It would indeed seem odd to outsiders who don’t know the man.
I reiterate, he has built up a a very wide circle of enemies within the party over the course of 25 years.
“Israel is doing this…”, it’s “The Jews are doing this…”
Perhaps you can forgive the confusion. I thought Israel was the “Jewish State”, with an exclusive right of return for Jews anywhere, and only Jews. “Der Judenstaat” as conceived by Herzl…
The Jacko tributes are in…
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/06/gordons-tribute-to-jacko.html
A Number 10 spokesman has just issued the following: “Michael Jackson had millions of fans in Britain and the Prime Minister’s thoughts are with his family.”
David Cameron said: “I know Michael Jackson’s fans in Britain and around the world will be sad today. Despite the controversies, he was a legendary entertainer. Everybody will be thinking of his family, especially his children, at this time.”
308 - By-election polls have a poor record. By-elections are very hard fought and a well run campaign will pick up unstoppable momentum over the final weekend which the polls will generally be too late to detect. Differential turnout is crucial which they find hard to measure. It is also more difficult to weight them - there is demographic information available but constituencies are small enough that your knowledge about, say, middle class voters on average across the UK might be very wrong in Bognor Regis or wherever.
304 - Remember that the one who sat opposite him at dinner isn’t commenting on his suitability as Speaker as I don’t know him well enough.
To be honest, anyone who follows MP’s closely probably does have the information to make such comments. When much of someones working life is done in public you don’t have to know them personally to be able to pass comment on their suitability for the job.
Similarly, knowing a footballer personally doesn’t give you much, if any, better information to go on about their footballing prowess than the fan who follows the team from the stands and has never met them. You wouldn’t take much notice of that fan’s opinion if you were deciding whether they would be a good dinner guest though.
We are talking about whether Berkow is suitable to be Speaker. I’d say that a parliamentary observer, and someone who reads things he writes, could be in a fairly good position to comment.
321. The C&N and Henley polls weren’t so bad, surely?
320 Whilst Nick Clegg said “I own thirty of his records…”
“…a touch of anti-semitism”
The Jewish community is used to seeing themselves through the prism of oleaginous PR handouts and contrived epithets. Bercow mustn’t be allowed to deflect criticism by shouting “anti-semitism”.
On the basis of “keep your friends close, but your enemies closer”, it is a source of some wonder that Bercow hasn’t already been trampled underfoot….
I have just noticed the ICM poll on Norwich North. The figures imply a swing from Labour to the Tories of 7.8% - very close to the 8% swing suggested by today’s national YouGov poll.
326. I’d load up on a hung parliament then…
This morning I have received dozens of text ‘jokes’ about MJ, all of them completely unrepeatable. Have other PBers experienced the same?
Incidentally, the deceased is not perchance related to our own Stewart Jackson of swimming pool fame?
323 - I don’t recall the Henley polls (although ultimately it was a campaign where the Lib Dems never got the momentum they were looking for, which was all a bit predictable and never got that late move). But in Crewe, the last ICM was I think 45/37/16 and the result was 50/31/15 - so Labour (and to a lesser extent Tories) were well outside the MOE.
326. Anthony Wells notes that a large proportion answered ‘don’t know’, and these were allocated as usual by ICM on the basis of how people voted at the last GE.
Without this adjustment the topline figures would be Con 35 Lab 28 - closer to the locals results and a 9.5% swing….
324. Runnymede
I’m sure that the Crewe polls overstated Labour and understated the Conservatives.
The Glasgow East polls overstated Labour and understated the SNP.
They’ll be threads on this site about them.
327 I am very much in RodCrosby’s camp re - Hung Parliament probability!
321. It will be an interesting election, I am not sure that there is much to campaign on locally that really will get the juices flowing (things like hopsital closures etc) so dryer arguments like transport infrastructure, jobs/local economy and council reorganisation may be the campaign with a little emphasis on green things due to a green presence in the area.
as someone with connections to Norfolk/Norwich and a Canaries supporter I have to say it is a fine city with some of the friendliest people I have ever known. At the same time I have a feeling there will be some good canvassing tales from those who visit. Key tip. don’t say hello, it is “yeworright” which also means goodbye, how are you, nice weather isn’t it and numerous other things.
327. justin
Compare the local election result in Norwich North to the UNS.
The Conservatives did approximately twice as well.
The next election will not follow UNS.
331. …all of which suggests we shouldn’t ignore these polls but simply stick to OGH host’s maxim of assuming they all overstate Labour and adjust accordingly.
On which basis the Norwich N probably points to the Tories being comfortably ahead. But we’ll see.
315 - Ha! Good point Icarus.
I was actually thinking of constituency-specific polls - like the one that suggested Iain Dale (of whom I am a big fan) was going to win Norfolk North easily.
Further, are they smaller samples (it would seem a bit strange to poll 1,000 peole just in Norwich North), and how does the methodology differ?
309. “Anti-semitism increases day by day and hour by hour among the nations; indeed it is bound to increase, because the causes of its growth continue to exist and cannot be removed. Its remote cause is or loss of the power of assimilation during the Middle Ages; its immediate cause is our excessive production of mediocre intellects, who cannot find an outlet downwards or upwards - that is to say, no wholesome outlet in either direction. When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat, the subordinate officers of all revolutionary parties; and at the same time, when we rise, there rises also our terrible power of the purse.” - Theodor Herzl, “Der Judenstaat”, 1896, p.91.
Care to comment on Herzl’s ‘idiocy’ ? I don’t think Hitler of Goebbels would disagree much with the above…
319 Stick to discussing “Hung Parliaments”, Rod. Your contributions to the site on that theme are valuable from a betting point of view.
Leave off the Jew bashing - it doesn’t do you any favours.
Does anyone know the date yet for the Norwich N By Election ?
RodCrosby = Andrew Brons and i claim my £5!
336 - There was no Norfolk North constituency poll if I remember correctly. Dale did all sorts of sabre rattling on his blog and projected selected national polls onto the seat when it suited. But it was all smoke and mirrors.
315 JNT:
ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 504 adults aged 18+ by telephone on 19-21 June 2009. Interviews were conducted in the political constituency of Norwich North and the results have been weighted to the profile of all people in the constituency. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
http://www.ucu.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=3987
328. “This morning I have received dozens of text ‘jokes’ about MJ, all of them completely unrepeatable. Have other PBers experienced the same?”
Yes. But outside the political world - where all jokes are “inappropriate” - everyone else finds them very funny.
Nothing wrong in that. Particularly in this country, we tend to deal with tragedy through macabre humour.
There is an interesting link between the two strands running here, Norwich and the Jews in Britain and their persecution:
1144 A.D.– First ever recorded instance in medieval world of the infamous accusation of Jewish Ritual Murder. A young skinner’s apprentice, William of Norwich, is found dead in the woods near Norwich on Easter Eve. The Jews are falsely accused of crucifying him after their synagogue service. Although the authorities tried to protect the Jews and they were given sanctuary in the castle by the Sheriff of Oxford, several, including one of the leaders of the community, were murdered, when they left the refuge. Although the evidence against the Jews was so flimsy that they were not even required to answer the charge, the story nevertheless gained credence and William became a martyred saint.
Opinion poll from Norwich North
http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/26/icm-poll-from-norwich-north/
334 I am very aware of what happened in Norwich North in both the Local and European elections, but am firmly of the view that political allegiances are much looser at both when compared to a Parliamentary election.Over the years there has been a lot of evidence of this in Norwich Local elections - admittedly more in Norwich South.In general both the Greens and LibDems have underperformed in General Elections as compared with their local election results .The Tories ,on the other hand, always do better in Norwich South than at the locals.Perhaps the question we need to really consider is whether a parliamentary by election is more akin to a Local election - or to a General Election - or indeed somewhere between the two!
Land Registry figures out: house prices fell again (slightly - 0.2%) last month.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8120647.stm
323. To quote Antony Wells: “By-election polls in the past don’t have a particularly good track record”
I’d be very surprised if the Tories only polled 1% up on 2005. Pickles will be running the operation and he knows his stuff:
I’d expect - maybe:
Conservatives 39% (+5%)
Labour 25% (-20%)
Liberal Democrats 15% (-1%)
Green Party 14% (+11%)
Others 7%
I see that the good folk of PB have discussed my questions in detail while I was typing them. Good stuff.
When do they all start accusing each other of being insufficiently local?
348 The Labour vote will depend on there not being a Real “Anti-troughing” Labour candidate or such-like. And why wouldn’t UKIP do quite well here?
New thread on Norwich North with the Smithson analysis would be good?
This very disappointing thread should have died a long time ago…
351 Has Mike set off for the ferry yet?
343 -I agree with you there. Black humour is one way of dealing with grief. I have seen it at many funerals over the decades.
I have had the grandchildren emailing me from their I-phones at school with the most tasteless MJ jokes.
352 - isn’t that not until next Wednesday?
I wonder what the Ian Gibson effect will be on the Norfolk North vote?
Some of you may know the man. I have never met him but he always struck me as the sort of traditional Labour MP I could admire even if I disagreed with much of what he believed in.
What reaction will his expenses publicity have on the Labour vote and what reaction will it have on Labour activists?
Do we know who the Labour candidate will be? I assume the Tory and LibDem candidates are longstanding PPCs.
What effect might Charles Clark have on this by-election in his neighbouring seat? His future arguably hangs in the balance on the outcome. A big Tory win might mean curtains for him. A “poor” Tory win might give him hope and of course a Labour hold would cheer him up greatly. Might he be intending to stand down anyway?
I must be unique in the sense that I was kind of John Bercow’s ‘boss’ in the early 1990s. Not directly so, but he was the account manager for a lobbying company we used back then. So I met him quite regularly. Our politics then couldn’t have been much further apart, but he was agreeable company, if perhaps a bit over eager to please.
But Sean Fear and others are absolutely correct in their analysis of Bercow’s unpopularity. It is similar to the (now) equally distrusted Portillo, namely the preening satisfaction of publicly doing down his own party and flaunting an empathy with a government he was elected to oppose.
Mike is in one of his sillier modes with all this class/anti semitic nonsense. He needs that holiday. And why he is termed ‘genial’ is beyond me, and I suspect, beyond him too. Mike is the classic curmudgeon with a wide variety of often eccentric pet hates. But he runs a bloody good site, so forgiveness and forbearance are readily and frequently bestowed.
I’ll tell you what i had to turn over the channel on the TV when just eating a sandwich because they kept showing Michael Jackson body being put in a vehicle!
So i turned over to ITV 4 and a program called the champions was on and it was ever so funny - this woman said “Will the pumping cause any violent movements?” I thought WTF! Very funny they kept talking about pumping and the length of time it would take with no hint of a smile or laugh! It is about 40 years old so maybe they did not make such a thing of double entondra? Though the carry on films would suggest differently!
Two points on the Bercow situtation.
1.The level of bile in the Tory Party reached such a level that the leadership has, I suspect been putting pressure on MPs to shut it.the bizarre figures of Dorries and Letts are not what you want to be associated with.
2.If an Independent Conservative stood in Buckingham, Cameron would have to condemn them and urge people to vote for Bercow.
355 - the Conservative candidate has been in place for a while but the Lib Dem candidate was shipped in recently from a neighbouring seat.
Easterross:
Do we know who the Labour candidate will be? I assume the Tory and LibDem candidates are longstanding PPCs.
Chloe Smith was adopted by the Conservatives a while back (not sure quite how long). April Pond the Libdem Candidate ‘jumped ship’ from the neighbouring constituency of Broadlands last Sunday when she was accepted as candidate for the by-election (apparently she was 3rd choice). Needless to say being Norfolk, Iain Dale has waxed lyrical about it twice at least. You might want to check his site out for further details.
359. Like Michael Jackson the LD candidate will soon be politically buried.
343/353 - Are the people joking about Jackson really dealing with “grief” or finding ways to cope with “tragedy”?
To be honest, I think most of them just don’t care that much and it’s a chance to wheel out some gags about a basically pretty bizarre individual who provides a rich source for jokers.
Jackson’s death is only really a tragedy for his immediate family, and I suspect those with genuine feelings of grief right now are in a tiny minority. It’s sad when anyone goes before their time, but anyone who didn’t know him who’s feeling “grief” about it needs to take a good look at the man in the mirror.
360. According to Dale, Clegg was trying to draft in Martin Bell then the editor of the local rag. Both told him to GTF.
360 - According to Conservative Home, January 2008:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2008/01/chloe-smith-sel.html
350. The Greens.
I’ve only read 3 tasteless Jackson jokes this morning. Do I need to get out more?
O/T. Something else to worry about
http://www.canada.com/news/Fungus+threat+hangs+over+world+wheat+production/1728850/story.html
361 - the Lib Dems should concentrate on Norwich South where they stand a very good chance of unseating Charles Clarke - a similar swing to 2005 should do the trick (even without the boundary changes).
reports: Jackson died after a self-injection of Demerol…
353. In the real world, the more tasteless the joke, the more funny they are…
This one is quite good:
“Doctors say it is still too soon to say what killed Michael Jackson but, having ruled out sunshine, moonlight and good times, they remain suspicious about the boogie.”
Of course, if I was a politican I’d be saying how “outrageous” it was etc. etc.
Very difficult to defend this kind of humour on air, of course, but it’s also why people feel so set apart from the political classes.
362. Not sure about that.
A lot of people really liked his music and entertainment and feel that the world is a bit emptier now he’s no longer with us.
jsfl you omit to mention that the LD candidate did not jump ship since an enormous part of her seat is still in Norwich North. At least 10% I understand, which is enormous on a LD bar chart…
Also she was way down the LD selection list but after Martin Bell and the local newspaper editor declined Clegg’s advances the LDs engaged in a bit of carpet bagging in the belief that they had a good chance. 20 to 1 with Will Hills!
355 - Norwich North rather than Norfolk North but we know what you meant. The whole thing is rather bad for Charles Clarke. At the next General Election, the Tories will target North to hold which will tend to help the Lib Dems in South (though the Greens could still scupper them). Previously, Tories in Norwich were probably a bit torn between the two seats as they do okay in both without doing well in either.
362 - no, my comment is about grief in general where at funerals some seem to walk a tightrope of going between crying or laughing. I just added in what the grandchildren are sending me from their London school.
Mike, your assertion that there is something anti semitic about the dislike of John Bercow among Conservatives is a slur and an insult. I didn’t even know he was Jewish until Cameron’s speech after his election, yet like many Tories I dislike him because he is obnoxious, unprincipled and self-serving.
I voted for Michael Howard in the 2005 election - the (unopposed) leader of the Conservative Party. A Jew, right?
What’s the difference between Alex Ferguson and Michael Jackson?
Alex will be playing Giggs in August.
373. And both the crying and laughing is most awkward and restrained.
How very British.
Good news about my appeal. My ‘consultation’ period has been extended to July 31. I have given them food for thought I reckon!
371. TC. LOL!
I don’t think of two wards as being an ‘enormous part’ of the newly formed Broadlands constituency. I did mention that she was third choice but at the time couldn’t remember who Clegg had tried to parachute in.
New thread on ICM Norwich N poll
the only by-election held yesterday - SNP hold Sidlaw Monifieth
SNP 2846
Con 698
LD 439
turnout just under 29%
I have been working in the seat since 6 June. Feet now up. This seat is split half Dundee East and West for Westminster.
Conservative anger with Portillo was if anything more intense than that against Bercow. I remember Amanda Platell’s broadcast video diary that clearly fingered him as a traitor and the bitter feelings about him in the party. Yet I don’t recall Labour jumping up and down accusing Tories of being racists and full of bile about Portillo. It’s obvious that Labour is now using Bercow as a political football plain and simple. As time goes by I strongly suspect Bercow will prove to be more of a Labour than Tory irritant. Meanwhile I guess the pious finger wagging about “immature” behaviour from the likes of Nick Palmer will have to be endured. I wonder how long it will be before Gordon, (showing that great maturity he always displays) is hurling his mobile at the guy?
344. The story was the first ever blood libel that has been the pretext for persecuting Jews across the world ever since. So lets hope that’s where the connection with the Norwich bye-election ends!
343 Casino.
I said they were unrepeatable. I didn’t say they weren’t funny!
As a ‘bilious Tory’ of very working class origins, I am quite offended by the comments made in this article.
I have been unhappy about Bercow for along time. I am unhappy at his election and don’t see why I should pretend otherwise. I am unhappy about his expenses and don’t see why I should not say so. I am unhappy at the manner of his election - a reasonable point of view.
I am also happy to have him prove to be a good speaker - but the idea that the dislike is based on religion or class or even his politics is ridiculous and appears to be based more on the prejudices of the theorist than the theorised.
My I remind you Mike that you were surprised at how much you disliked him on one experience. I find the assumption that the opinions of those who have have experienced him more and who dislike him more, must be based on their anti-semitism, extraordinary to say the least.
““class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism””
I have always been surprised at the level dislike that Bercow generated from those within the Conservative party, but until the last week, I never came across any comments about his background or religion. I never knew he was even Jewish. So I think that comment is really unwarranted.
“The Tory reaction so far has been over-the-top, class-ridden and with a touch of anti-semitism - a possible reminder of how the “nasty party” used to be seen”
Where is your factual evidence that backs up your accusations of anti-semitism? I would sue your ass if I was a Tory MP.
People can be unpleasant regardless of their race, colour, class, creed, etc, blah, blah, and Bercow is an arrogant smug git.
deliberate posting on old thread to try and suss problem.
para 3
But, if the corpse dies or is even seriously-wounded, what happens to this lot of shark sucker-fish? How many tears would be shed nationally if this random collection of not-so-wise-owls and comfortably-fat pussycats were to be discharged together on the wrong side of Thames flood barrier in a coracle manufactured from comment-page papier-mache? There might even be competition to make the leaking vessel pea-green! I’m sure Peter Hitchens could organise it!
How in God’s name has the reaction among Tories to Bercow’s election been anti-semitic?
I’m offended, frankly. The idea is nonsense.
The disgust that many Blues have to Bercow’s procession to the Chair was fuelled primarily, if not solely, by his incessant sucking up to Labour in the last few years in what one may now credibly conclude was a covert campaign to fulfil a burning ambition to become Commons Speaker (Steve Richards of the Independent confirmed to BBC News that Bercow had told him of his ambition after the ‘05 election).
Anti-Semitism my posterior.
I cannot believe this tripe that is being spoken about the possible reason for Tories despising John Bercow might have something to do with Anti-Semitism. What a nasty mischievous and twisted mind the person must have if they think this is the reason. They obviously don’t know the real John Bercow that his ex- Tory colleagues came to know so well. They couldn’t of followed John Bercow’s change in core beliefs and political ideology over the last five years or more from right wing conservative to ultra liberal, they must not of noticed his disloyalty to the Conservative party and at least three of its party leaders when it suited him, or have noticed his arrogance in the House of Commons, or listened to his condesending pedantic speeches or his smug ridicule of opponents or observed his four years of ‘greasing up’ to his new found labour and liberal chums, or his blatant ambitious opportunism and lack of real principles and convictions. I could go on…but these are the real reasons he was so despised by his own party because they were close enough to observe the real John Bercow. So your malicious suggestion that it might have something to do with his Jewish backgroud is ridiculous, if you knew your stuff, you would also know that he has no faith and is proud to be an atheist.